Judo - Ultimate Jujitsu

Judo

Author	Comments
sl Resident 855 posts	Monday 20th September 2004 at 10:40 What does everyone think about Judo ______________________________
the_little_dragon Regular 33 posts	Monday 20th September 2004 at 19:37 it`s a loada poo and too traditional...ju jitsu roxcs!
Disciple Newbie 4 posts	Monday 20th September 2004 at 20:38 Ok first of all, you should never call another martial art "poo". Each is unique and devised for seperate causes. As a judoka and a ju jitsuka i really can't see where you got the idea Judo was so traditional, its no more so than Ju Jitsu. Anyway as to the question i think judo is a good Sport but it has lost its fighting roots. its great for fitness and exercise but not necessarily as a fighting style, i do it for fun and health. Martial Arts, Like painting, but with bruises Martial Arts, Like painting, b
lance Regular 26 posts	Monday 20th September 2004 at 20:51 If Judo is too traditional then surely jujitsu is even more so as jujitsu is the "mother art " of judo. I enjoyed watching it in the olympics but it seems (to me) limited in it's practicle or street use.
Falthor Newbie 10 posts	Tuesday 21st September 2004 at 20:36 Here's something that has been debated for year, and will be debated for many more years as we go in life. The whole, which is better Judo Vs JuJitsu argument can be summed up in the answer to a question, What type of student are you? If you're the guy thinking of breaking into the MMA world, or looking at this completely from a Self defense standpoint with the single minded intention of using what you have learn in a combatitive manner, the Ju-Jitsu is the right path. Anything else coudl easily fall in either category. Now correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Japan police force train in Judo as it's self Defense Art? I don't know how said Judo isn't really good for self defense but that struck me as funny. I agree, because Judo, as it is taught, is a sport and not a style of self defense, but it doesn't take a black belt to see the self defense possibilities inherient in Proffessor Kano's style. I've studied Judo and Katsudo-Te Jitsu (Harold Howard's form of Ju-Jitsu) and have thouroughly enjoyed both. Judo gives you a great place to practice throws and the like in a mostly safe environment, accident have and will continue to happen, whereas Ju-Jitsu takes the guess work out of how to use the art for defense.
Robsco 1319 posts	Tuesday 21st September 2004 at 22:38 I think lets be serious... for self defence, if you have any background of martial arts, you're gonna be off better than the average guy on the street of the same weight. It's when weight becomes an issue, Ju-Jitsu and Judo (more so) fair the same in my book. BJJ wins overall when weight becomes an issue in a 1-on-1 confrontation, simple because in that situation, we will almost always take the other guy to the ground, in which they've certainly got no training and simply panic, wasting energy. --------------------------------------------- Robsco! - The Site Administrator 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth' The Admin Guy
Falthor Newbie 10 posts	Wednesday 22nd September 2004 at 21:21 I totally agree in fact i would cal my own style of sell defense a BJJ hybrid even if I have never studied BJJ. my background in Judo was always abotu the groundwork, it's where I was comfortable, and the Ju-Jitsu I took was to make me passable at striking, and to add the joint locks I didn't knwo into the equation. In a 1 on 1 the ground is you ally, beyond that and the technique I reccomend is RUN. :-)
steve Resident 217 posts	Friday 24th September 2004 at 22:12 IMO (I do both, every week, at good standard clubs) Judo....Tougher art, more demanding (high cardio), high need for natural ability, fair dependance on technique, bigger risk of injury. BJJ....Not as tough, less demanding (lower cardio), less need for natural ability, but higher degree of technique, lower risk of injury. "Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog" "Its not the size of the dog i
Bassmonger Resident 198 posts	Saturday 25th September 2004 at 11:58 Chance of injury depends on how stubborn you are- I've seen some silly people rather have their arm snapped than tap out. It's only losing in training, who cares? Just tap. "I like my jiu-jitsu the same way as I like pubic hair on a lady" DEFEATED IN AL
Robsco 1319 posts	Saturday 25th September 2004 at 13:01 Steve, explain how natural ability comes into each and why they're different. --------------------------------------------- Robsco! - The Site Administrator 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth' The Admin Guy
andy Resident 729 posts	Saturday 25th September 2004 at 18:46 Judo is good if you wanna learn how to throw. BJJ is good if you wanna learn to fight on the floor. Natural ability would have the same effect in both. Technically should be the same if you have a good instructor. as for cardio, Steve your're talking bollocks (i like to tell it straight), it all depends on how you train, i can train hard in bjj and develop my cardio to the extreme, or i can be lazy and not develop my cardio, same goes for judo. they would be different types of cardio though ;) pain is temporary, pride is forever. www.roycegraciesheffield.com "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
steve Resident 217 posts	Sunday 26th September 2004 at 17:15 Well you must be getting used to me talking B*llocks by now, maybe should explain what I meant a bit fuller. Judo cardio (stand up) involves constant movement, being pushed, pulled losing ballance, regaining ballance, almost being thrown (fall to knees and having to get up again for immediate resatart), so cardio demand type is fast burst, like doing 100m sprints over & over again, whilst constantly losing and recovering ballance. You get out of breath very, very quickly and start gassing, muscles tighten up, yet can recover in a few minutes once you stop. BJJ is sustained slower release, the quick bursts are not as demanding as your bodyweight is still to some extent 'resting' either below your opponent or on your opponent and with good control you can take short 'recovery' breaks whilst you roll. Yet to keep going for a significant time in a well matched roll, your cardio obviously has to be good and is more of an 'enduring' type. To answer Rob's question the natural ability obviously helps in both BJJ and JUDO, flexibility, agility, etc, but whereas in BJJ with technical 'drilling' you can for example learn to spot a set-up and counteract it purely through good knowledge, in Judo it is lot harder when an instinctive player moves quickly and takes control of your ballance in synch with his own. Don't know if that made any sense, hard to explain, but suppose a good example would be when you have been caught by an elevator type technique in BJJ and you are in the air and at opponents mercy. In Judo an instinctive play often achieves that sort of control over an opponent without even realising it, sometimes even a raw beginner on an experienced player...once dynamic momentum & gravity have taken over even the best players can do nothing about. Only way to really understand my comment is to have a go. "Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog" "Its not the size of the dog i
andy Resident 729 posts	Tuesday 28th September 2004 at 20:45 i have done quite a lot of judo, it was what i started in and have trained with loads of good judoka, what you are talking about comes with practice not natural ability. the principles you talk about for bjj training are the same as in judo, you drill the throw, you spar and try the throw, fail, drill some more try again and suddenly you can pull it off same as subs and sweeps in bjj. its all practice and mat time. as for the cardio discussion, yeah they are different but the same, bjj is full of explosive movement its' also full of trying to hold a position when the other guy is trying to pass, escape. You talk about getting good control and resting, same goes for Judo. good judo guys know when to relax and conserve energy, the trick in both sports is to not lose concentration. pain is temporary, pride is forever. www.roycegraciesheffield.com "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
lance Regular 26 posts	Friday 1st October 2004 at 02:23 ok, i take back what i said at the top of this thread ... a 2nd dan judo (player ?) has joined our jj class ... he's awsome.
Dave Addict 183 posts	Wednesday 6th October 2004 at 16:05 If anyone thinks judo is poo then go and train in a judo club and believe me you will soon find out what pain and fitness really is! Also go and roll with Neil Adams for a while im sure he will open your eyes that judo isnt poo. The Gracies all seeked his expertease on armlocks coz hes shit-hot at them. Postman Pat, Postman Pat, Postman Pat and his Black and white Catttt. Early in the mornin when the nah nah deedle dat da do!!!!! Ah fuct it right up Postman Pat, Postman Pat, Post
guybrod Newbie 3 posts	Saturday 9th October 2004 at 18:55 I just have to throw this in - BJJ is very good at what they do, no mistake, so that is not the issue here with my comment (so don't get offended)! What does amuse me however is the comparison between BJJ and Judo, when the fact is that BJJ is not Ju-jitsu at all, however much you wish to use that term (this is historical fact gentlemen)! BJJ is JUDO - more specifically, it has its roots in 1930's Judo - Maeda was a member of the Kodokan (when, by the way, Judo still allowed leg locks and groundwork was more emphasized - before the Olympics messed it up). Judo has a HUGE newaza (groundwork) syllabus, I have NEVER seen a BJJ technique that was not also a Judo technique - it is simply that many (not all) Judo clubs choose to emphasize the throws as it is the most impressive way to SCORE big, hence alot of Judoka today have a watered down/limited background in their own art. Since the 1930's BJJ and Judo have gone their separate paths and developed in their own distinct ways, however, BJJ is NOT ju-jitsu as it has no direct roots back to Ju-jitsu at all, but is an outgrowth of Judo.
steve Resident 217 posts	Saturday 9th October 2004 at 21:00 I am in agreement with your comments...I posted similar on a thread on here a year or so back. I would however give credit that the pioneers of BJJ (Carlos / Helio and their extended families have done much to further develop & refine the groundwork of judo to what is probably now a more comprehensive and technically advanced level than conceptual judo (kano's original) and its jiujitsu roots ever did. "Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog" "Its not the size of the dog i
Robsco 1319 posts	Saturday 9th October 2004 at 22:11 Guybrod, and where did Judo come from? --------------------------------------------- Robsco! - The Site Administrator 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth' The Admin Guy
sl Resident 855 posts	Sunday 10th October 2004 at 00:59 Ju Jitsu?????? ______________________________
Robsco 1319 posts	Sunday 10th October 2004 at 02:28 Well done. :o) If it was Judo that was taught to the Gracies, why did they call it Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu instead of Brazilian Judo? To my knowledge Maeda also trained in Ju-Jitsu, so it looks like this is what he taught the Gracies. --------------------------------------------- Robsco! - The Site Administrator 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth' The Admin Guy

Author

Comments

Resident

855 posts

Monday 20th September 2004 at 10:40

What does everyone think about Judo

______________________________

the_little_dragon

Regular

33 posts

Monday 20th September 2004 at 19:37

it`s a loada poo and too traditional...ju jitsu roxcs!

Disciple

Newbie

4 posts

Monday 20th September 2004 at 20:38

Ok first of all, you should never call another martial art "poo". Each is unique and devised for seperate causes. As a judoka and a ju jitsuka i really can't see where you got the idea Judo was so traditional, its no more so than Ju Jitsu. Anyway as to the question i think judo is a good Sport but it has lost its fighting roots. its great for fitness and exercise but not necessarily as a fighting style, i do it for fun and health. Martial Arts, Like painting, but with bruises

Martial Arts, Like painting, b

lance

Regular

26 posts

Monday 20th September 2004 at 20:51

If Judo is too traditional then surely jujitsu is even more so as jujitsu is the "mother art " of judo.

I enjoyed watching it in the olympics but it seems (to me) limited in it's practicle or street use.

Falthor

Newbie

10 posts

Tuesday 21st September 2004 at 20:36

Here's something that has been debated for year, and will be debated for many more years as we go in life.

The whole, which is better Judo Vs JuJitsu argument can be summed up in the answer to a question, What type of student are you?

If you're the guy thinking of breaking into the MMA world, or looking at this completely from a Self defense standpoint with the single minded intention of using what you have learn in a combatitive manner, the Ju-Jitsu is the right path.

Anything else coudl easily fall in either category.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Japan police force train in Judo as it's self Defense Art?

I don't know how said Judo isn't really good for self defense but that struck me as funny. I agree, because Judo, as it is taught, is a sport and not a style of self defense, but it doesn't take a black belt to see the self defense possibilities inherient in Proffessor Kano's style.

I've studied Judo and Katsudo-Te Jitsu (Harold Howard's form of Ju-Jitsu) and have thouroughly enjoyed both. Judo gives you a great place to practice throws and the like in a mostly safe environment, accident have and will continue to happen, whereas Ju-Jitsu takes the guess work out of how to use the art for defense.

Robsco

1319 posts

Tuesday 21st September 2004 at 22:38

I think lets be serious... for self defence, if you have any background of martial arts, you're gonna be off better than the average guy on the street of the same weight.

It's when weight becomes an issue, Ju-Jitsu and Judo (more so) fair the same in my book.

BJJ wins overall when weight becomes an issue in a 1-on-1 confrontation, simple because in that situation, we will almost always take the other guy to the ground, in which they've certainly got no training and simply panic, wasting energy. --------------------------------------------- Robsco! - The Site Administrator 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth'

The Admin Guy

Falthor

Newbie

10 posts

Wednesday 22nd September 2004 at 21:21

I totally agree in fact i would cal my own style of sell defense a BJJ hybrid even if I have never studied BJJ.

my background in Judo was always abotu the groundwork, it's where I was comfortable, and the Ju-Jitsu I took was to make me passable at striking, and to add the joint locks I didn't knwo into the equation.

In a 1 on 1 the ground is you ally, beyond that and the technique I reccomend is RUN. :-)

steve

Resident

217 posts

Friday 24th September 2004 at 22:12

IMO (I do both, every week, at good standard clubs)

Judo....Tougher art, more demanding (high cardio), high need for natural ability, fair dependance on technique, bigger risk of injury.

BJJ....Not as tough, less demanding (lower cardio), less need for natural ability, but higher degree of technique, lower risk of injury.

"Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog"

"Its not the size of the dog i

Bassmonger

Resident

198 posts

Saturday 25th September 2004 at 11:58

Chance of injury depends on how stubborn you are- I've seen some silly people rather have their arm snapped than tap out.

It's only losing in training, who cares? Just tap. "I like my jiu-jitsu the same way as I like pubic hair on a lady"

DEFEATED IN AL

Robsco

1319 posts

Saturday 25th September 2004 at 13:01

Steve, explain how natural ability comes into each and why they're different. --------------------------------------------- Robsco! - The Site Administrator 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth'

The Admin Guy

andy

Resident

729 posts

Saturday 25th September 2004 at 18:46

Judo is good if you wanna learn how to throw.

BJJ is good if you wanna learn to fight on the floor.

Natural ability would have the same effect in both.

Technically should be the same if you have a good instructor.

as for cardio, Steve your're talking bollocks (i like to tell it straight), it all depends on how you train, i can train hard in bjj and develop my cardio to the extreme, or i can be lazy and not develop my cardio, same goes for judo. they would be different types of cardio though ;) pain is temporary, pride is forever. www.roycegraciesheffield.com

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

steve

Resident

217 posts

Sunday 26th September 2004 at 17:15

Well you must be getting used to me talking B*llocks by now, maybe should explain what I meant a bit fuller.

Judo cardio (stand up) involves constant movement, being pushed, pulled losing ballance, regaining ballance, almost being thrown (fall to knees and having to get up again for immediate resatart), so cardio demand type is fast burst, like doing 100m sprints over & over again, whilst constantly losing and recovering ballance. You get out of breath very, very quickly and start gassing, muscles tighten up, yet can recover in a few minutes once you stop.

BJJ is sustained slower release, the quick bursts are not as demanding as your bodyweight is still to some extent 'resting' either below your opponent or on your opponent and with good control you can take short 'recovery' breaks whilst you roll. Yet to keep going for a significant time in a well matched roll, your cardio obviously has to be good and is more of an 'enduring' type.

To answer Rob's question the natural ability obviously helps in both BJJ and JUDO, flexibility, agility, etc, but whereas in BJJ with technical 'drilling' you can for example learn to spot a set-up and counteract it purely through good knowledge, in Judo it is lot harder when an instinctive player moves quickly and takes control of your ballance in synch with his own.

Don't know if that made any sense, hard to explain, but suppose a good example would be when you have been caught by an elevator type technique in BJJ and you are in the air and at opponents mercy.

In Judo an instinctive play often achieves that sort of control over an opponent without even realising it, sometimes even a raw beginner on an experienced player...once dynamic momentum & gravity have taken over even the best players can do nothing about. Only way to really understand my comment is to have a go. "Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog"

"Its not the size of the dog i

andy

Resident

729 posts

Tuesday 28th September 2004 at 20:45

i have done quite a lot of judo, it was what i started in and have trained with loads of good judoka, what you are talking about comes with practice not natural ability. the principles you talk about for bjj training are the same as in judo, you drill the throw, you spar and try the throw, fail, drill some more try again and suddenly you can pull it off same as subs and sweeps in bjj. its all practice and mat time.

as for the cardio discussion, yeah they are different but the same, bjj is full of explosive movement its' also full of trying to hold a position when the other guy is trying to pass, escape. You talk about getting good control and resting, same goes for Judo. good judo guys know when to relax and conserve energy, the trick in both sports is to not lose concentration. pain is temporary, pride is forever. www.roycegraciesheffield.com

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

lance

Regular

26 posts

Friday 1st October 2004 at 02:23

ok, i take back what i said at the top of this thread ... a 2nd dan judo (player ?) has joined our jj class ... he's awsome.

Dave

Addict

183 posts

Wednesday 6th October 2004 at 16:05

If anyone thinks judo is poo then go and train in a judo club and believe me you will soon find out what pain and fitness really is! Also go and roll with Neil Adams for a while im sure he will open your eyes that judo isnt poo. The Gracies all seeked his expertease on armlocks coz hes shit-hot at them. Postman Pat, Postman Pat, Postman Pat and his Black and white Catttt. Early in the mornin when the nah nah deedle dat da do!!!!! Ah fuct it right up

Postman Pat, Postman Pat, Post

guybrod

Newbie

3 posts

Saturday 9th October 2004 at 18:55

I just have to throw this in - BJJ is very good at what they do, no mistake, so that is not the issue here with my comment (so don't get offended)! What does amuse me however is the comparison between BJJ and Judo, when the fact is that BJJ is not Ju-jitsu at all, however much you wish to use that term (this is historical fact gentlemen)! BJJ is JUDO - more specifically, it has its roots in 1930's Judo - Maeda was a member of the Kodokan (when, by the way, Judo still allowed leg locks and groundwork was more emphasized - before the Olympics messed it up). Judo has a HUGE newaza (groundwork) syllabus, I have NEVER seen a BJJ technique that was not also a Judo technique - it is simply that many (not all) Judo clubs choose to emphasize the throws as it is the most impressive way to SCORE big, hence alot of Judoka today have a watered down/limited background in their own art. Since the 1930's BJJ and Judo have gone their separate paths and developed in their own distinct ways, however, BJJ is NOT ju-jitsu as it has no direct roots back to Ju-jitsu at all, but is an outgrowth of Judo.

steve

Resident

217 posts

Saturday 9th October 2004 at 21:00

I am in agreement with your comments...I posted similar on a thread on here a year or so back.

I would however give credit that the pioneers of BJJ (Carlos / Helio and their extended families have done much to further develop & refine the groundwork of judo to what is probably now a more comprehensive and technically advanced level than conceptual judo (kano's original) and its jiujitsu roots ever did. "Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog"

"Its not the size of the dog i

Robsco

1319 posts

Saturday 9th October 2004 at 22:11

Guybrod, and where did Judo come from? --------------------------------------------- Robsco! - The Site Administrator 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth'

The Admin Guy

Resident

855 posts

Sunday 10th October 2004 at 00:59

Ju Jitsu??????

______________________________

Robsco

1319 posts

Sunday 10th October 2004 at 02:28

Well done. :o)

If it was Judo that was taught to the Gracies, why did they call it Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu instead of Brazilian Judo?

To my knowledge Maeda also trained in Ju-Jitsu, so it looks like this is what he taught the Gracies. --------------------------------------------- Robsco! - The Site Administrator 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth'

The Admin Guy