the truth about ground fighting????

Author	Comments
kempo_jujutsu Newbie 4 posts	Wednesday 11th June 2003 at 13:42 hi im new here, i have studied taekwondo (bleh)...and gokei ryu kempo jujutsu, which is more traditional than jeet kune do, but more eclectic than yoshin ryu for instance, covering all ranges. anyway as for (your personal) truth about ground fighting. personally i think that while its true that most real fights end up on the ground (100% of the ones ive seen)(in every fight at least one of you is gonna end up there ;)) you definately dont want to stay there and grapple, you should end it as quickly as possible (applies to all combat but especially for ground combat), or get back to your feet as quickly as possible. nothin like gettin kicked in the head by three of your opponents buddies. i think the reason a person should train ground fighting is not to intentionally take them to the ground and follow them and grapple, while thats all fun and good in the dojo, i think you should train it to prepare for the times when you dont intentionally go there but find yourself on the ground having to defend your life!! i was always taught when you take someone down, you should end it right then, knee to the face or break a limb or somethin lol about the only time i actually grappled on the ground other than when learning how to do it, was when someone else took me down and i found myself there and defended accordingly (well sometimes)..thanks. id like to hear your opinions on this subject.
Sir Moonface Regular 26 posts	Thursday 12th June 2003 at 22:41 The obvious answer to this is, don't get into the situation where you are up against several opponents at once. Surely the best defence against multiple opponents is to leg it. You may receive a bit of stick for legging it, but you wont get a nice trip to hospital. If it is unavoidable, try to injure as many of the f*****s as you can, cos' if you gonna go down, go down fighting!! "It's better to look good and lose, than to look bad and win"
kempo_jujutsu Newbie 4 posts	Friday 13th June 2003 at 09:13
kempo_jujutsu Newbie 4 posts	Friday 13th June 2003 at 09:14
kempo_jujutsu Newbie 4 posts	Friday 13th June 2003 at 09:25 lol well said, avoidance is the key to winning any self defense situation, but when you cant, or its too late to avoid it, and you find yourself in that situation grappling may not be your best bet. of course if there is more than one opponent you should injure as many of the f*ckers as possible, i was referring to...if you did find youself on the ground against an opponent, or many...i dont think staying on the ground is such a good idea if it can be helped. for instance if you got into a scrap in a bar, chances are the guy you are quarreling with has got a few buddies with him and if you start whippin him. or he takes you down...all his buddies are gonna whip you too...(hopefully you have a few friends with you as well)..but as you said you should try to avoid the situation. all that said i agree with you, when you go down, go down fighting...that reminds me of a sepultura song. one of the 'principles' of traditional jujutsu is using the minimum force necissary, i dont always agree, when some of them would use a joint lock and try to hold down a raging drunkem disorderly coked up psycho, while all his buddies are tryin to kick him...i would probably just go ahead and rip off his arm. a krav maga instructor said once, if you dont know how to creat damage on your assailant, you pretty much did nothing. lol
steve Resident 217 posts	Friday 13th June 2003 at 23:22 Anyone who has not trained at grappling someone to the ground will struggle to do so '1 on 1' against someone who has trained to defend against it. Basically down to simple co-ordination, movement & ballance...a trained fighter will have it. I see examples of this every time a beginner joins in at a judo class...doesnt matter how big & strong they are they cannot throw any of the half decent judokas. Knocking someone down is a bit different...a decent barrage of ferocious power shots will break down a trained grappler's ability to co-ordinate movement & ballance....however if the grappler is also skilled at parrying & evading and then counterpunching with equal ferocity again they will win through. Basically if you train to fight once or twice a week every week for several years then 'practice makes perfect' and you will definitely have the edge (notice I said 'train to fight' and not 'train to ponce about' meaning the training has to be realistic....skillfull, powerfull, at fast pace and sustained...TMA will not give you this...it will only make you think you are good!) On your specific point if it goes to ground a fighters skill will get him the best position on landing....not to try and sub but to free up his hands so he can pound the f*ck out of the other guy quickly with 4 or 5 good shots, then get back to your feet before his mates have chance to steam in. aaaa "Its not the size of the dog i
doctorkev Newbie 5 posts	Thursday 3rd July 2003 at 22:59 "The man who fights and runs away. lives to fight another day!" This is certainly true in nearly all examples of physical confrontation but what do you do when some big brute takes you to the floor? As a Shodan-Ho Jujitsu practitioner with 6 years experience and a professional doorman I can assure anyone that ground fighting skills are essential as are standing grapling skills. I have witnessed and been in confrontations with many boxers, kickboxers, Tae Kwon Doers and Karatekas. I can guarantee that I beat everyone of these hands down through jujitsu because what use is boxing when you're in a head lock? What good is a crescent kick when you're on your back being punched? My opinion: only boxers and karatekas who have never had a "real" (in the street) fight will tell you groundfighting isn't worthwhile. Keep grappling Keep grappling
RMJA Newbie 8 posts	Friday 4th July 2003 at 10:41 I read - somewhere - that the statistic that, "90% of all fights end up on the ground" was lifted from LA police records. Of course, when they arrest people, it is common for them to end up on the ground. Many of the confrontations I have seen, like in bars, or people half drunk in the street, end after: 1 Verbal argument 2 Verbal shouting matches 3 Pushing and shoving 4 A single punch that puts the other guy off 5 Rough and ready pushing and shoving with hopeless punching 6 Some continue to the ground, almost always because one fell over, never because one took the other to the ground. I have yet to see that. I have never seen the so called "expert street fighter", notr would I want to, and rarely see trouble. But that is my experience. RMJA RMJA
Robsco 1319 posts	Friday 4th July 2003 at 19:54 The 90% stat came from street fights the LA police dept had witnessed/had to deal with. Not the actual coppers themselves have a fight. Otherwise it'd be 98% of street fights finish with someone in hand-cuffs! :-p --------- Robsco! 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth' The Admin Guy
Smiffla Newbie 1 posts	Saturday 5th July 2003 at 12:27 i like street fighting. it's such a thrill when you kick sum1's ass and they get squished all ova da pavement. -------------------------- And that's the way the cookie crumbles. -------------------------- An
doctorkev Newbie 5 posts	Saturday 5th July 2003 at 14:48 In my profession I have witnessed (and ended) thousands of fights. They nearly always go like this: A. Are you looking at my bird? B. No mate (girl) Look just leave it A A. No you want some prick B. Yeah come on then This goes on for about 10 minutes till someone gets the courage to throw a punch. They then punch and brawl for a while till one rugby tackles the other and they end up on the floor. If yo uare a groundfighter and some twat takes you to the floor like this he deserves a kicking. My philosophy on this: If you don't want people looking at you bird get an ugly one Keep grappling Keep grappling
steve Resident 217 posts	Sunday 6th July 2003 at 22:51 Cleaner if you can avoid going to the ground - too much glass & dog shit. Lol "Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog" "Its not the size of the dog i
steve Resident 217 posts	Sunday 6th July 2003 at 22:54 Cleaner if you can avoid going to the ground - too much glass & dog shit. Lol "Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog" "Its not the size of the dog i

Author

Comments

Newbie

4 posts

Wednesday 11th June 2003 at 13:42

hi im new here, i have studied taekwondo (bleh)...and gokei ryu kempo jujutsu, which is more traditional than jeet kune do, but more eclectic than yoshin ryu for instance, covering all ranges.
anyway as for (your personal) truth about ground fighting.
personally i think that while its true that most real fights end up on the ground (100% of the ones ive seen)(in every fight at least one of you is gonna end up there ;)) you definately dont want to stay there and grapple, you should end it as quickly as possible (applies to all combat but especially for ground combat), or get back to your feet as quickly as possible. nothin like gettin kicked in the head by three of your opponents buddies. i think the reason a person should train ground fighting is not to intentionally take them to the ground and follow them and grapple, while thats all fun and good in the dojo, i think you should train it to prepare for the times when you dont intentionally go there but find yourself on the ground having to defend your life!! i was always taught when you take someone down, you should end it right then, knee to the face or break a limb or somethin lol about the only time i actually grappled on the ground other than when learning how to do it, was when someone else took me down and i found myself there and defended accordingly (well sometimes)..thanks. id like to hear your opinions on this subject.

Sir Moonface

Regular

26 posts

Thursday 12th June 2003 at 22:41

The obvious answer to this is, don't get into the situation where you are up against several opponents at once. Surely the best defence against multiple opponents is to leg it. You may receive a bit of stick for legging it, but you wont get a nice trip to hospital. If it is unavoidable, try to injure as many of the f*****s as you can, cos' if you gonna go down, go down fighting!!

"It's better to look good and lose, than to look bad and win"

kempo_jujutsu

Newbie

4 posts

Friday 13th June 2003 at 09:13

kempo_jujutsu

Newbie

4 posts

Friday 13th June 2003 at 09:14

kempo_jujutsu

Newbie

4 posts

Friday 13th June 2003 at 09:25

lol well said, avoidance is the key to winning any self defense situation, but when you cant, or its too late to avoid it, and you find yourself in that situation grappling may not be your best bet. of course if there is more than one opponent you should injure as many of the f*ckers as possible, i was referring to...if you did find youself on the ground against an opponent, or many...i dont think staying on the ground is such a good idea if it can be helped. for instance if you got into a scrap in a bar, chances are the guy you are quarreling with has got a few buddies with him and if you start whippin him. or he takes you down...all his buddies are gonna whip you too...(hopefully you have a few friends with you as well)..but as you said you should try to avoid the situation. all that said i agree with you, when you go down, go down fighting...that reminds me of a sepultura song.
one of the 'principles' of traditional jujutsu is using the minimum force necissary, i dont always agree, when some of them would use a joint lock and try to hold down a raging drunkem disorderly coked up psycho, while all his buddies are tryin to kick him...i would probably just go ahead and rip off his arm.
a krav maga instructor said once, if you dont know how to creat damage on your assailant, you pretty much did nothing. lol

steve

Resident

217 posts

Friday 13th June 2003 at 23:22

Anyone who has not trained at grappling someone to the ground will struggle to do so '1 on 1' against someone who has trained to defend against it. Basically down to simple co-ordination, movement & ballance...a trained fighter will have it. I see examples of this every time a beginner joins in at a judo class...doesnt matter how big & strong they are they cannot throw any of the half decent judokas.

Knocking someone down is a bit different...a decent barrage of ferocious power shots will break down a trained grappler's ability to co-ordinate movement & ballance....however if the grappler is also skilled at parrying & evading and then counterpunching with equal ferocity again they will win through.

Basically if you train to fight once or twice a week every week for several years then 'practice makes perfect' and you will definitely have the edge (notice I said 'train to fight' and not 'train to ponce about' meaning the training has to be realistic....skillfull, powerfull, at fast pace and sustained...TMA will not give you this...it will only make you think you are good!)

On your specific point if it goes to ground a fighters skill will get him the best position on landing....not to try and sub but to free up his hands so he can pound the f*ck out of the other guy quickly with 4 or 5 good shots, then get back to your feet before his mates have chance to steam in.

aaaa

"Its not the size of the dog i

doctorkev

Newbie

5 posts

Thursday 3rd July 2003 at 22:59

"The man who fights and runs away. lives to fight another day!"

This is certainly true in nearly all examples of physical confrontation but what do you do when some big brute takes you to the floor?

As a Shodan-Ho Jujitsu practitioner with 6 years experience and a professional doorman I can assure anyone that ground fighting skills are essential as are standing grapling skills.

I have witnessed and been in confrontations with many boxers, kickboxers, Tae Kwon Doers and Karatekas. I can guarantee that I beat everyone of these hands down through jujitsu because what use is boxing when you're in a head lock? What good is a crescent kick when you're on your back being punched?

My opinion: only boxers and karatekas who have never had a "real" (in the street) fight will tell you groundfighting isn't worthwhile.

Keep grappling

Keep grappling

RMJA

Newbie

8 posts

Friday 4th July 2003 at 10:41

I read - somewhere - that the statistic that, "90% of all fights end up on the ground" was lifted from LA police records. Of course, when they arrest people, it is common for them to end up on the ground.

Many of the confrontations I have seen, like in bars, or people half drunk in the street, end after:
1 Verbal argument
2 Verbal shouting matches
3 Pushing and shoving
4 A single punch that puts the other guy off
5 Rough and ready pushing and shoving with hopeless punching
6 Some continue to the ground, almost always because one fell over, never because one took the other to the ground. I have yet to see that.
I have never seen the so called "expert street fighter", notr would I want to, and rarely see trouble. But that is my experience.

RMJA

RMJA

Robsco

1319 posts

Friday 4th July 2003 at 19:54

The 90% stat came from street fights the LA police dept had witnessed/had to deal with. Not the actual coppers themselves have a fight.

Otherwise it'd be 98% of street fights finish with someone in hand-cuffs! :-p

---------

Robsco!

'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth'

The Admin Guy

Smiffla

Newbie

1 posts

Saturday 5th July 2003 at 12:27

i like street fighting. it's such a thrill when you kick sum1's ass and they get squished all ova da pavement.

--------------------------

And that's the way the cookie crumbles.

--------------------------

An

doctorkev

Newbie

5 posts

Saturday 5th July 2003 at 14:48

In my profession I have witnessed (and ended) thousands of fights. They nearly always go like this:

A. Are you looking at my bird?
B. No mate
(girl) Look just leave it A
A. No you want some prick
B. Yeah come on then

This goes on for about 10 minutes till someone gets the courage to throw a punch.

They then punch and brawl for a while till one rugby tackles the other and they end up on the floor.

If yo uare a groundfighter and some twat takes you to the floor like this he deserves a kicking. My philosophy on this: If you don't want people looking at you bird get an ugly one

Keep grappling

Keep grappling

steve

Resident

217 posts

Sunday 6th July 2003 at 22:51

Cleaner if you can avoid going to the ground - too much glass & dog shit. Lol

"Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog"

"Its not the size of the dog i

steve

Resident

217 posts

Sunday 6th July 2003 at 22:54

Cleaner if you can avoid going to the ground - too much glass & dog shit. Lol

"Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog"

"Its not the size of the dog i