Defending the takedown

Author	Comments
Fu Jow Regular 39 posts	Monday 10th April 2006 at 16:47 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5615747381762149354&q=gracie&pl=true My question is, as a striker, what the hell was the hapkido guy doing? His hands are always down... he never mounts any kind of offense...his footwork is terrible since he backs up in a straight line. i think if he could defend the takedown better than he might not have his ass handed to him. Thoughts? Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He
Robsco 1319 posts	Monday 10th April 2006 at 20:37 Against a grappler like that, whether your hands are up or down makes no difference. Unless you train some decent takedown defence you're pretty much buggered. The Admin Guy
sl Resident 855 posts	Tuesday 11th April 2006 at 08:33 No chance takendown and handed his arse!:-p Never really understood Hapkido. ______________________________
Robsco 1319 posts	Tuesday 11th April 2006 at 11:35 The happy version of Aikido perhaps? The Admin Guy
sl Resident 855 posts	Tuesday 11th April 2006 at 13:05 you'd need a sense of humour with them skirts they wear ha:-D ______________________________
CoreyL Regular 27 posts	Tuesday 11th April 2006 at 16:49 His footwork could have definately been better It looks like he was prepared to throw bombs at the range he was comfortable at, then when he was taken out of his element he had nothing left. He wanted to fight the match in his style... it's like he almost didn't realize that there is 4 ranges in combat. Loved the comment about all his years of training going to waste. Ketto Ryu Ju-Jitsu
Fu Jow Regular 39 posts	Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 00:58 btw...hapkido is a korean MA. But i mean, i know Rorion Gracie is the #1 son of Helio...so he must be good, but this particular martial artist seemed to be a crappy striker...the same thing goes for that "kung fu master" who royce choked out. At least if you put somebody like Chuck Liddell in front of a gracie it would make things interesting. maybe chuck norris? :-p Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He
Robsco 1319 posts	Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 11:29 But Chuck isn't a king fu guy is he? The Gracie In Action videos show BJJ when pitted against other pure arts before the whole craze of Mixed Martial Arts started, this was all back in the day when you could quite easily pit one style against another. The Admin Guy
Fu Jow Regular 39 posts	Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 13:25 Na, Liddell is a Karateka turned kickboxer turned Mixed Martial Artist. I was just making the point that he is a really good striker, coupled with an amazing sprawl (takedown defense). Thats how he eliminated Randy Couture twice as well as the brazilian jiu jitsu ace Jeremy Horn. Liddell has the hardest hitting punches in the UFC right now. He would have a ligitimate shot at taking out a Gracie, especially since hes about 205 pounds. Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He
Robsco 1319 posts	Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 14:01 That's true, but you was comparing Chuck to a kung fu expert, who only knows kung fu. If chuck stayed with his karate, he'd be pants in the cage, it's the MMA aspect that makes someone a good fighter. The Gracie's start the whole thing off with the Gracie In Action videos, then the UFC, and now everyone knows that you need more than just one art, and that's what everyone does these days. Well, professional cage-fighters anyway. The Admin Guy
sl Resident 855 posts	Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 17:32 we'll see Royce Vs Hughes soon enough.:-) ______________________________
spider Regular 235 posts	Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 18:10 UFC 59 is on sunday, taking us one step closer. I think you missed the point of the video. The video is about the fact that pure traditional martial arts that don't instruct people on the takedown and ground defence are hugely flawed. As the commentry says, his years of training may have been a waste.
Fu Jow Regular 39 posts	Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 20:39 Yea, i understand that somebody who knows no ground-work is truly an incomplete fighter. But to be a champion I dont think you need to ever submit somebody...Liddell is a prime example of a guy who uses wrestling and jiu jitsu only as means of standing back up as-soon-as-possible if ever taken down. I took a class in BJJ, and while I was not extremely good at submitting people...I knew what they were going to catch me in while they were pulling it off just by watching things like hte UFC or even this sight. Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He
sl Resident 855 posts	Thursday 13th April 2006 at 08:57 but could you defend it?? ______________________________
Fu Jow Regular 39 posts	Thursday 13th April 2006 at 16:18 Me personally? well we started sparring from our knees, so takedowns werent very prevalent. but yea, i could defend certain things simply because I knmew what was coming. That isnt to say that they didnt catch me...it was only my first day of learning submission defenses:-)) And yea, Gracie vs. Hughes should be one of the biggest venues in UFC history...which says a LOT Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He
sl Resident 855 posts	Thursday 13th April 2006 at 16:32 Can't wait!!!! although im looking forward to tito / forest this weekend!!!! ______________________________
andy Resident 729 posts	Thursday 13th April 2006 at 18:44 ok chuck liddell is not a pure striker, he is a very good wrestler and trains bjj, a true mixed martial artist. by your own admition you need to learn bjj to defend against it. a pure striker will never ever ever beat a pure grappler. "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
andy Resident 729 posts	Thursday 13th April 2006 at 18:48 ps. chuck 1st started as a wrestler in high school "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
spider Regular 235 posts	Thursday 13th April 2006 at 19:28 It's the years of wrestling and now mixed martial arts training that has given Chuck the balance to avoid the takedown so well, and the ability to stand up whilst someone is holding onto him. Has anyone seen a pure striker not have his ass handed to him by a barely competent grappler?
Fu Jow Regular 39 posts	Thursday 13th April 2006 at 20:37 Ok, andy, you must have missed the first half of this post. The point I'm making is that, liddell is a wrestler, so thats why he can defend the takedown (hence the name of this topic) but his true style, however...is kickboxing. his grappling is completely defensive. And while he has only ONE submission in his career, he is still the best in the world...a striker...best light heavyweight in the world. So i'm not pretending that a pure martial artist can be complete without grappling knowledge, i'm just stating that when you take away a grappler's most important weapon (getting the person to the ground), you can beat them as a striker...before chuck, strikers were thought of as "washed up". And, btw...that karate vs bjj video further proves my point about the caliber of these "masters"... that karateka literally RAN at the ju jitsu guy with is hands down...wtf?:-O Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He

Author

Comments

Regular

39 posts

Monday 10th April 2006 at 16:47

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5615747381762149354&q=gracie&pl=true

My question is, as a striker, what the hell was the hapkido guy doing? His hands are always down... he never mounts any kind of offense...his footwork is terrible since he backs up in a straight line. i think if he could defend the takedown better than he might not have his ass handed to him. Thoughts?

Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He

Robsco

1319 posts

Monday 10th April 2006 at 20:37

Against a grappler like that, whether your hands are up or down makes no difference.

Unless you train some decent takedown defence you're pretty much buggered.

The Admin Guy

Resident

855 posts

Tuesday 11th April 2006 at 08:33

No chance takendown and handed his arse!:-p

Never really understood Hapkido.

______________________________

Robsco

1319 posts

Tuesday 11th April 2006 at 11:35

The happy version of Aikido perhaps?

The Admin Guy

Resident

855 posts

Tuesday 11th April 2006 at 13:05

you'd need a sense of humour with them skirts they wear ha:-D

______________________________

CoreyL

Regular

27 posts

Tuesday 11th April 2006 at 16:49

His footwork could have definately been better
It looks like he was prepared to throw bombs at the range he was comfortable at, then when he was taken out of his element he had nothing left.
He wanted to fight the match in his style... it's like he almost didn't realize that there is 4 ranges in combat.
Loved the comment about all his years of training going to waste.

Ketto Ryu Ju-Jitsu

Fu Jow

Regular

39 posts

Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 00:58

btw...hapkido is a korean MA. But i mean, i know Rorion Gracie is the #1 son of Helio...so he must be good, but this particular martial artist seemed to be a crappy striker...the same thing goes for that "kung fu master" who royce choked out. At least if you put somebody like Chuck Liddell in front of a gracie it would make things interesting. maybe chuck norris? :-p

Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He

Robsco

1319 posts

Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 11:29

But Chuck isn't a king fu guy is he? The Gracie In Action videos show BJJ when pitted against other pure arts before the whole craze of Mixed Martial Arts started, this was all back in the day when you could quite easily pit one style against another.

The Admin Guy

Fu Jow

Regular

39 posts

Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 13:25

Na, Liddell is a Karateka turned kickboxer turned Mixed Martial Artist. I was just making the point that he is a really good striker, coupled with an amazing sprawl (takedown defense). Thats how he eliminated Randy Couture twice as well as the brazilian jiu jitsu ace Jeremy Horn. Liddell has the hardest hitting punches in the UFC right now. He would have a ligitimate shot at taking out a Gracie, especially since hes about 205 pounds.

Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He

Robsco

1319 posts

Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 14:01

That's true, but you was comparing Chuck to a kung fu expert, who only knows kung fu.

If chuck stayed with his karate, he'd be pants in the cage, it's the MMA aspect that makes someone a good fighter.

The Gracie's start the whole thing off with the Gracie In Action videos, then the UFC, and now everyone knows that you need more than just one art, and that's what everyone does these days. Well, professional cage-fighters anyway.

The Admin Guy

Resident

855 posts

Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 17:32

we'll see Royce Vs Hughes soon enough.:-)

______________________________

spider

Regular

235 posts

Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 18:10

UFC 59 is on sunday, taking us one step closer.
I think you missed the point of the video. The video is about the fact that pure traditional martial arts that don't instruct people on the takedown and ground defence are hugely flawed. As the commentry says, his years of training may have been a waste.

Fu Jow

Regular

39 posts

Wednesday 12th April 2006 at 20:39

Yea, i understand that somebody who knows no ground-work is truly an incomplete fighter. But to be a champion I dont think you need to ever submit somebody...Liddell is a prime example of a guy who uses wrestling and jiu jitsu only as means of standing back up as-soon-as-possible if ever taken down. I took a class in BJJ, and while I was not extremely good at submitting people...I knew what they were going to catch me in while they were pulling it off just by watching things like hte UFC or even this sight.

Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He

Resident

855 posts

Thursday 13th April 2006 at 08:57

but could you defend it??

______________________________

Fu Jow

Regular

39 posts

Thursday 13th April 2006 at 16:18

Me personally? well we started sparring from our knees, so takedowns werent very prevalent. but yea, i could defend certain things simply because I knmew what was coming. That isnt to say that they didnt catch me...it was only my first day of learning submission defenses:-))

And yea, Gracie vs. Hughes should be one of the biggest venues in UFC history...which says a LOT

Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He

Resident

855 posts

Thursday 13th April 2006 at 16:32

Can't wait!!!! although im looking forward to tito / forest this weekend!!!!

______________________________

andy

Resident

729 posts

Thursday 13th April 2006 at 18:44

ok chuck liddell is not a pure striker, he is a very good wrestler and trains bjj, a true mixed martial artist.

by your own admition you need to learn bjj to defend against it.

a pure striker will never ever ever beat a pure grappler.

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

andy

Resident

729 posts

Thursday 13th April 2006 at 18:48

ps. chuck 1st started as a wrestler in high school

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

spider

Regular

235 posts

Thursday 13th April 2006 at 19:28

It's the years of wrestling and now mixed martial arts training that has given Chuck the balance to avoid the takedown so well, and the ability to stand up whilst someone is holding onto him.
Has anyone seen a pure striker not have his ass handed to him by a barely competent grappler?

Fu Jow

Regular

39 posts

Thursday 13th April 2006 at 20:37

Ok, andy, you must have missed the first half of this post. The point I'm making is that, liddell is a wrestler, so thats why he can defend the takedown (hence the name of this topic) but his true style, however...is kickboxing. his grappling is completely defensive. And while he has only ONE submission in his career, he is still the best in the world...a striker...best light heavyweight in the world. So i'm not pretending that a pure martial artist can be complete without grappling knowledge, i'm just stating that when you take away a grappler's most important weapon (getting the person to the ground), you can beat them as a striker...before chuck, strikers were thought of as "washed up".

And, btw...that karate vs bjj video further proves my point about the caliber of these "masters"... that karateka literally RAN at the ju jitsu guy with is hands down...wtf?:-O

Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He