Traditional vs Mixed

Author	Comments
andy Resident 729 posts	Friday 27th April 2007 at 21:52 Do you guys see a future in traditional martial arts that aren't olmpic sports? Is everyone fed up of "Chi masters" and kung fu death touches or do you believe that these techniques are real and are just too dangerous for the octagon? "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
Robsco 1319 posts	Friday 27th April 2007 at 21:53 'traditional' arts will be around for years, not everyone wants to take into the cage, etc. The Admin Guy
andy Resident 729 posts	Friday 27th April 2007 at 22:03 you dont need to take judo, TKD, BJJ into the cage or any competition i was just asking of people believe that the rise of MMA will open peoples eyes to the 'realism' of martial arts "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
Robsco 1319 posts	Friday 27th April 2007 at 23:21 I still don't think MMA is as big as some make out, it's got a LONG way to go yet, but atleast it's getting there. is it even as big as olympic Judo? Only to some enlightened individuals unfortunaly. The Admin Guy
ninja9578 Regular 92 posts	Monday 30th April 2007 at 18:01 Chi is my opinion is nothing more than the electrical force that controls your muscles. It's an imbalance between calcium and potassium. I'm sure that it can be focued, but not to the extent that you can throw it. As for kung fu death touches, if you hit someone hard enough in the right place their heart will stutter. It's not a matter of chi, just correct placement and power. My problem with MMA is people get way to into it. It's fun to watch the pros, but amatuers piss me off. Also I'm tired of people telling me that my martial arts training is lacking because I focus on one style. If I'm ever in a situation where I'm squaring off with Tito Ortiz, I'll eat my blackbelt. Blue Belt - Gracie JJ 3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do
Kung-Fu Spectator 31 posts	Thursday 3rd May 2007 at 05:32 while it is important to note olympic sports are really pretty useless in the street, i think traditional arts definitely have a place in the ma world(they ARE the MA world!)but it is important to cut out the BS techniques...if somebody is attacking you or your family you wont be afforded a "picturesque" scenario. however, it is important to note that cutting out the BS doesnt mean turning karate into kickboxing, there are distinctive valuable techniqes in many arts. Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing "He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu
ninja9578 Regular 92 posts	Sunday 6th May 2007 at 22:30 Not really, complicated forms and techniques dramatically increase coordination. Having a good tornado kick will make your roundhouse better. BS techniques are still very important. Blue Belt - Gracie JJ 3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do
Kung-Fu Spectator 31 posts	Monday 7th May 2007 at 03:30 i disagree, doing 1000 roundhouses will make your roundhouse better Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing "He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu
Mobstarr Spectator 45 posts	Monday 7th May 2007 at 21:38 Well as somobody who started out training in Traditional Ju-Jitsu I think its an unfortunate fact that there just isn't that level of interest in tradional stuff anymore. The amount of new people who come to the club and say 'I wanna be an MMA fighter' is unbelievable and if you even try and include the traditional values in training nine out of ten times people are gonna loose inetrest. Its a shame that Traditional stuff isn't as appealing to people anymore, but as for its place well aslong as that one person asks to learn it then it will continue to be taught. "Its not the chances we get in life, its what we do with them that matters" 2nd Dan Traditional Ju-Jitsu (Kensho Ryu & Kano Bushi Ryu) "In the shadows, waiting for my time..." www.pmaa.co.uk
ninja9578 Regular 92 posts	Tuesday 8th May 2007 at 14:42 I'm a traditional martial artist and I've done MMA. One tournament I was pretty successful at and the other I wasn't so much. The problem is that on the street you want to use the most effective techniques possible, in MMA you can't do that because they are extremely dangerous. Example: About a year ago I was challenged to an MMA fight by a guy who was a high school wrestler. He shot in and I sprawled so that I didn't go down. I palm-striked the back of his head and knocked him out cold. Very effective technique, I didn't know that it was illegal. If I'm getting mugged and I have a chance to do it, I'm eye gouging him. Blue Belt - Gracie JJ 3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do
Kung-Fu Spectator 31 posts	Wednesday 9th May 2007 at 03:58 this is true, while MMA is as real as it gets while being LEGAL, there are still a host of illegal techniques which can be used. they are found in kung fu, karate etc...and from what i can tell i it is epitomozed in Krav Maga Eye poking/gouging, groin attacks, stomps and knee kicks are all very effective in subduing an aggressor Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing "He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu
Bee Regular 33 posts	Wednesday 9th May 2007 at 12:46 If you are attacked by someone with no formal training it will always be strange to deal with. They won`t always come in with the right hand yee haa punch. The same can be said if the fight goes to the ground. Getting good position will be at the back of their mind. Punching out your lights will be their priority. The edge comes with reading the situation and keeping your cool. Take away all the rules and you can fight them no holds barred. Trouble is cos you know where and how to strike you may find yourself in hot water. As you said previously one palm heel and the jobs a good un. The authorities may take a dim view of you plucking their eyeballs out. Which takes us nicely back to the boring old reasonable force issue. "Bee"
Robsco 1319 posts	Wednesday 9th May 2007 at 20:04 One problem every style has with so-called illegal techniques is that you simply can't practice them. The Admin Guy
Kung-Fu Spectator 31 posts	Wednesday 9th May 2007 at 22:32 this is true, and it does limit the efficiency of many techniques, but just becuase i cant practice kicking an actual person in the nads it doesnt mean it wont work Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing "He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu
Robsco 1319 posts	Thursday 10th May 2007 at 23:23 Kicking someone in the nads you can practise. Gouging someones eyes out is a little more tricky. The Admin Guy
spider Regular 235 posts	Monday 28th May 2007 at 13:30 Well usuall, you can either practise speed to the wrong target, or accuracy to the right target (eye pokes and groin strikes). My gym over looks a karate class that is on twice a week. Four years I've been here, seen several different instructors pass through the area. Although they practise a striking art, I've never seen them strike anything. Why don't traditional martial artists see that there is something fundimentally wrong with their training? I've practised several arts with set pieces, but sparring and competition can never be replaced. If you want to practise an art, if you want a hobby, if you want your different coloured belts, fine. Just don't think you can fight if you've never been in a fight. Imagine going to a swimming class, for seven years, getting several qualifications, being a leader in your field, much respected, often sought after for advice, but never once stepping into water?
Davies1978 Spectator 20 posts	Monday 28th May 2007 at 23:55 I practiced Karate for years and we always worked on the apporach of use whatever workd, I think this is very traditional approach that is found with everyone in MMA they use all sorts of styles to make them more effective inheir sportg arena. What I am trying to say is that often the paths we all take are a lot more similar than not! Having said that I would practice baseball bat do against some of those ufc monsters and would still loose!!!! I like pies
Jasper Spectator 20 posts	Thursday 7th June 2007 at 07:43 As I've not seen all the UFC fights I cannot fully comment. I think what this topic is saying is that UFC 1 was truly a mixture of Martial Arts - Ju Jitsu, Kickboxing, karate, Tae kwon Do, BJJ....etc and over the years has become a hybrid MMA style..Also you would think the Black Belt practicioners would have pulled the tricks of the trade out of the bag, or the techniques that exist and fought in the UFC,Pride,Bushido etc....or is the application of these techniques practiced by the aforementioned Martial arts impractical for the octagon!!
AndyMolyneux Spectator 9 posts	Thursday 7th June 2007 at 16:18 Not all traditional styles train to punch the air!
Robsco 1319 posts	Thursday 7th June 2007 at 17:02 I've never known or even heard of a professional MMA fighter have that sort of attitude. Were these kids or amateurs, or seasoned professionals? There's obviously a difference, and it sounds like you've seen something and jumped to the wrong conclusion - by a long shot. The Admin Guy

Author

Comments

Resident

729 posts

Friday 27th April 2007 at 21:52

Do you guys see a future in traditional martial arts that aren't olmpic sports?

Is everyone fed up of "Chi masters" and kung fu death touches or do you believe that these techniques are real and are just too dangerous for the octagon?

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

Robsco

1319 posts

Friday 27th April 2007 at 21:53

'traditional' arts will be around for years, not everyone wants to take into the cage, etc.

The Admin Guy

andy

Resident

729 posts

Friday 27th April 2007 at 22:03

you dont need to take judo, TKD, BJJ into the cage or any competition i was just asking of people believe that the rise of MMA will open peoples eyes to the 'realism' of martial arts

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

Robsco

1319 posts

Friday 27th April 2007 at 23:21

I still don't think MMA is as big as some make out, it's got a LONG way to go yet, but atleast it's getting there.

is it even as big as olympic Judo? Only to some enlightened individuals unfortunaly.

The Admin Guy

ninja9578

Regular

92 posts

Monday 30th April 2007 at 18:01

Chi is my opinion is nothing more than the electrical force that controls your muscles. It's an imbalance between calcium and potassium. I'm sure that it can be focued, but not to the extent that you can throw it.

As for kung fu death touches, if you hit someone hard enough in the right place their heart will stutter. It's not a matter of chi, just correct placement and power.

My problem with MMA is people get way to into it. It's fun to watch the pros, but amatuers piss me off. Also I'm tired of people telling me that my martial arts training is lacking because I focus on one style. If I'm ever in a situation where I'm squaring off with Tito Ortiz, I'll eat my blackbelt.

Blue Belt - Gracie JJ
3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu
Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do

Kung-Fu

Spectator

31 posts

Thursday 3rd May 2007 at 05:32

while it is important to note olympic sports are really pretty useless in the street, i think traditional arts definitely have a place in the ma world(they ARE the MA world!)but it is important to cut out the BS techniques...if somebody is attacking you or your family you wont be afforded a "picturesque" scenario. however, it is important to note that cutting out the BS doesnt mean turning karate into kickboxing, there are distinctive valuable techniqes in many arts.

Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing

"He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu

ninja9578

Regular

92 posts

Sunday 6th May 2007 at 22:30

Not really, complicated forms and techniques dramatically increase coordination. Having a good tornado kick will make your roundhouse better. BS techniques are still very important.

Blue Belt - Gracie JJ
3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu
Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do

Kung-Fu

Spectator

31 posts

Monday 7th May 2007 at 03:30

i disagree, doing 1000 roundhouses will make your roundhouse better

Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing

"He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu

Mobstarr

Spectator

45 posts

Monday 7th May 2007 at 21:38

Well as somobody who started out training in Traditional Ju-Jitsu I think its an unfortunate fact that there just isn't that level of interest in tradional stuff anymore. The amount of new people who come to the club and say 'I wanna be an MMA fighter' is unbelievable and if you even try and include the traditional values in training nine out of ten times people are gonna loose inetrest.
Its a shame that Traditional stuff isn't as appealing to people anymore, but as for its place well aslong as that one person asks to learn it then it will continue to be taught.

"Its not the chances we get in life, its what we do with them that matters"

2nd Dan Traditional Ju-Jitsu (Kensho Ryu & Kano Bushi Ryu)

"In the shadows, waiting for my time..."

www.pmaa.co.uk

ninja9578

Regular

92 posts

Tuesday 8th May 2007 at 14:42

I'm a traditional martial artist and I've done MMA. One tournament I was pretty successful at and the other I wasn't so much. The problem is that on the street you want to use the most effective techniques possible, in MMA you can't do that because they are extremely dangerous.

Example: About a year ago I was challenged to an MMA fight by a guy who was a high school wrestler. He shot in and I sprawled so that I didn't go down. I palm-striked the back of his head and knocked him out cold. Very effective technique, I didn't know that it was illegal.

If I'm getting mugged and I have a chance to do it, I'm eye gouging him.

Blue Belt - Gracie JJ
3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu
Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do

Kung-Fu

Spectator

31 posts

Wednesday 9th May 2007 at 03:58

this is true, while MMA is as real as it gets while being LEGAL, there are still a host of illegal techniques which can be used. they are found in kung fu, karate etc...and from what i can tell i it is epitomozed in Krav Maga

Eye poking/gouging, groin attacks, stomps and knee kicks are all very effective in subduing an aggressor

Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing

"He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu

Bee

Regular

33 posts

Wednesday 9th May 2007 at 12:46

If you are attacked by someone with no formal training it will always be strange to deal with. They won`t always come in with the right hand yee haa punch. The same can be said if the fight goes to the ground. Getting good position will be at the back of their mind. Punching out your lights will be their priority. The edge comes with reading the situation and keeping your cool. Take away all the rules and you can fight them no holds barred. Trouble is cos you know where and how to strike you may find yourself in hot water. As you said previously one palm heel and the jobs a good un. The authorities may take a dim view of you plucking their eyeballs out. Which takes us nicely back to the boring old reasonable force issue.

"Bee"

Robsco

1319 posts

Wednesday 9th May 2007 at 20:04

One problem every style has with so-called illegal techniques is that you simply can't practice them.

The Admin Guy

Kung-Fu

Spectator

31 posts

Wednesday 9th May 2007 at 22:32

this is true, and it does limit the efficiency of many techniques, but just becuase i cant practice kicking an actual person in the nads it doesnt mean it wont work

Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing

"He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu

Robsco

1319 posts

Thursday 10th May 2007 at 23:23

Kicking someone in the nads you can practise.

Gouging someones eyes out is a little more tricky.

The Admin Guy

spider

Regular

235 posts

Monday 28th May 2007 at 13:30

Well usuall, you can either practise speed to the wrong target, or accuracy to the right target (eye pokes and groin strikes).
My gym over looks a karate class that is on twice a week. Four years I've been here, seen several different instructors pass through the area. Although they practise a striking art, I've never seen them strike anything. Why don't traditional martial artists see that there is something fundimentally wrong with their training?
I've practised several arts with set pieces, but sparring and competition can never be replaced. If you want to practise an art, if you want a hobby, if you want your different coloured belts, fine. Just don't think you can fight if you've never been in a fight.
Imagine going to a swimming class, for seven years, getting several qualifications, being a leader in your field, much respected, often sought after for advice, but never once stepping into water?

Davies1978

Spectator

20 posts

Monday 28th May 2007 at 23:55

I practiced Karate for years and we always worked on the apporach of use whatever workd, I think this is very traditional approach that is found with everyone in MMA they use all sorts of styles to make them more effective inheir sportg arena. What I am trying to say is that often the paths we all take are a lot more similar than not! Having said that I would practice baseball bat do against some of those ufc monsters and would still loose!!!!

I like pies

Jasper

Spectator

20 posts

Thursday 7th June 2007 at 07:43

As I've not seen all the UFC fights I cannot fully comment.

I think what this topic is saying is that UFC 1 was truly a mixture of Martial Arts - Ju Jitsu, Kickboxing, karate, Tae kwon Do, BJJ....etc and over the years has become a hybrid MMA style..Also you would think the Black Belt practicioners would have pulled the tricks of the trade out of the bag, or the techniques that exist and fought in the UFC,Pride,Bushido etc....or is the application of these techniques practiced by the aforementioned Martial arts impractical for the octagon!!

AndyMolyneux

Spectator

9 posts

Thursday 7th June 2007 at 16:18

Not all traditional styles train to punch the air!

Robsco

1319 posts

Thursday 7th June 2007 at 17:02

I've never known or even heard of a professional MMA fighter have that sort of attitude.

Were these kids or amateurs, or seasoned professionals? There's obviously a difference, and it sounds like you've seen something and jumped to the wrong conclusion - by a long shot.

The Admin Guy