"kicking while on the ground"

Author	Comments
budoman Newbie 12 posts	Wednesday 14th September 2005 at 19:44 I have been traing in many different martial arts for about 4 years. I have trained in everything from taekwondo to jujitsu.I have never posted here but have read the forum several times. 2 days ago i got into my first fight since i have been training. This guy through a break shoe through my car window at me. I got out of the car and struck him with a straight right to the jaw. He went right down. As I was getting back in my car he got up and through another one at me. I went up to him and did a five punch combo, "most punches didnt have much on them", and then did a judo throw and took this guy down. While he was trying to get up, "kind of like in a push-up stance", I kicked him in the head and ended the situation. I was telling my friend who is a ex-cop and he told me that you cant do that. He said you cant kick someone while they're down. I thought there were know rules to a fight anyway, specially when a guys throwing metal objects at you.I would like to hear what other people have to say about my choices i made and if they would do the same. thanks
budoman Newbie 12 posts	Wednesday 14th September 2005 at 19:59 I would love to hear from instuctors and law enforment people but i do want to hear everybodys opinion.
andy Resident 729 posts	Wednesday 14th September 2005 at 21:34 'reasonable force' is the key, if you believed you were still in danger and that kicking him was your only option then it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
budoman Newbie 12 posts	Wednesday 14th September 2005 at 22:28 Thank you.
Robsco 1319 posts	Thursday 15th September 2005 at 12:38 If he got up once and tried again, then you may have thought he'd get up again and try it, so I would say you was using reasonable force. Obviously if he was down and begging for mercy, the kick to the head may be a little excessive! :-p The Admin Guy
sl Resident 855 posts	Thursday 15th September 2005 at 12:52 I think kicking someone when there on the floor is a big no no in the eyes of the law unless you can prove your life is threatened. How do you prove that???? But if someone had thrown something through my windscreen im afraid id be implied to river dance on his head....... ______________________________
Drunken Master Newbie 19 posts	Thursday 15th September 2005 at 16:32 haha, a good topic. i cant stop laughing. maybe you could have climbed on top of your car and gave him an elbow drop. boom. picked him up. pow. full nelson that break shoe throwing mother f ------------------------------
budoman Newbie 12 posts	Thursday 15th September 2005 at 17:11 Thanks, I have enjoyed all of your comments. wrestling referee? Ha! It is just kind of funny when you train hard and a situation actually happens and how easy you can resolve it. I was more instinct then anything. It wasnt like i even thought about it, i just did it. Thanks again guys. " by the way, it wazs a mix between a snap kick and a field goal kick to the face."
Bren Addict 123 posts	Thursday 15th September 2005 at 17:38 I can remember discussing the same subject with a copper who used to train with me. Apparently you can break someones face/ribs/arms or legs with punches or throws to your hearts content and plead self-defence, but if you kick (or worse still) stamp/stomp on someone on the ground then most courts will throw the book at you. The way I'd see it - no witnesses or CCTV - stomp on his throat and leave him to asphyxiate. Ps. Drunken Master - funniest post I've read in ages.
sl Resident 855 posts	Friday 16th September 2005 at 07:11 Im with the copper story, kicking on the floor is a no no ... have a friend who done it got community service and suspended sentence that was in self defence... Also what if you were to slap a rear naked on someone in self defence and put them out????????? ______________________________
budoman Newbie 12 posts	Friday 16th September 2005 at 14:40 Good question. I personaly am a better striker. It feels ntural to me. I will even try to strike on the ground before using a joint lock. I am 6"0 245 lbs. so if i connect i can usually end the situation. I have only trained in jujitsu for about a year and a half. I do love it but look at it more like, if it has to go there. I wonder if you you did a choke on someone till they went to sleep, what would the court say about that? Is it better because you cut of their oxygen? Is there a legal way to end a situation? I mean if someone's intentions are to harm you, why should you even have to think about the "proper way to stop them. shouldnt you just do your thing, whatever works to save your or your family or whomevers lives and thank god you did it afterwards?
Robsco 1319 posts	Friday 16th September 2005 at 14:52 It all comes down to 'reasonable force'. Plus it's more about what you 'perceived' to be the danger, not simply what the danger actually was. If you thought someone was going to stab you, then you can use the same force to defend yourself. You are also entitled to a pre-emptive strike if you think things are gonna 'kick-off'. The Admin Guy
andy Resident 729 posts	Friday 16th September 2005 at 14:53 if you choke someone out, and are still out when the cops show up, just say they fainted "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
budoman Newbie 12 posts	Friday 16th September 2005 at 15:57 ha,ha,ha,ha - good one. or what about, Officer you just missed it. It was so funny, That guy on the ground, his face just ran into my fist.
Bren Addict 123 posts	Friday 16th September 2005 at 20:51 I'm sure I've heard that using a choke or strangle is considered "deadly force" because of the damage you could "accidently" do to the trachea or carotid arteries but the police use "sholder strangles" themselves to tie someone up.
budoman Newbie 12 posts	Friday 16th September 2005 at 21:04 Then why even train if you really cant do any of it anyway. Mabe i should have never even started to train and just let every joe on the street slap me sideways and say thank you sir, can i have another.
Sweaty Gi Moderator 120 posts	Friday 16th September 2005 at 21:08 It all depends on how long you put the choke on for. I say choke/knock em out, then do a runner before the police arrive.
budoman Newbie 12 posts	Friday 16th September 2005 at 22:13 that animation is really cool man. Where can i find stuff like that?
Sweaty Gi Moderator 120 posts	Monday 19th September 2005 at 00:02 can't remember where I found him
spider Regular 235 posts	Tuesday 20th September 2005 at 11:14 I am in the RAF, and whenever I'm on guard or patrol with my rifle, I have no more rights to defend myself than a civilian, and so regularly get trained in the use of minimum force. I have the right to defend myself, using the absolute minimum force necessary to protect human life when no other option is available. You need a cop to answer your question, but if you got out of your car, and walked over, then hit him... how is that self defence? If you were frightened for you life, why didn't you drive away in a screech of rubber and dust, straight to the nearest police station to report the crime and demand protection?:-\|

Author

Comments

Newbie

12 posts

Wednesday 14th September 2005 at 19:44

I have been traing in many different martial arts for about 4 years. I have trained in everything from taekwondo to jujitsu.I have never posted here but have read the forum several times.

2 days ago i got into my first fight since i have been training. This guy through a break shoe through my car window at me. I got out of the car and struck him with a straight right to the jaw. He went right down. As I was getting back in my car he got up and through another one at me. I went up to him and did a five punch combo, "most punches didnt have much on them", and then did a judo throw and took this guy down. While he was trying to get up, "kind of like in a push-up stance", I kicked him in the head and ended the situation.

I was telling my friend who is a ex-cop and he told me that you cant do that. He said you cant kick someone while they're down. I thought there were know rules to a fight anyway, specially when a guys throwing metal objects at you.I would like to hear what other people have to say about my choices i made and if they would do the same. thanks

budoman

Newbie

12 posts

Wednesday 14th September 2005 at 19:59

I would love to hear from instuctors and law enforment people but i do want to hear everybodys opinion.

andy

Resident

729 posts

Wednesday 14th September 2005 at 21:34

'reasonable force' is the key, if you believed you were still in danger and that kicking him was your only option then it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

budoman

Newbie

12 posts

Wednesday 14th September 2005 at 22:28

Thank you.

Robsco

1319 posts

Thursday 15th September 2005 at 12:38

If he got up once and tried again, then you may have thought he'd get up again and try it, so I would say you was using reasonable force.

Obviously if he was down and begging for mercy, the kick to the head may be a little excessive! :-p

The Admin Guy

Resident

855 posts

Thursday 15th September 2005 at 12:52

I think kicking someone when there on the floor is a big no no in the eyes of the law unless you can prove your life is threatened. How do you prove that????

But if someone had thrown something through my windscreen im afraid id be implied to river dance on his head.......

______________________________

Drunken Master

Newbie

19 posts

Thursday 15th September 2005 at 16:32

haha, a good topic. i cant stop laughing. maybe you could have climbed on top of your car and gave him an elbow drop. boom. picked him up. pow. full nelson that break shoe throwing mother f

------------------------------

budoman

Newbie

12 posts

Thursday 15th September 2005 at 17:11

Thanks, I have enjoyed all of your comments. wrestling referee? Ha! It is just kind of funny when you train hard and a situation actually happens and how easy you can resolve it. I was more instinct then anything. It wasnt like i even thought about it, i just did it. Thanks again guys.

" by the way, it wazs a mix between a snap kick and a field goal kick to the face."

Bren

Addict

123 posts

Thursday 15th September 2005 at 17:38

I can remember discussing the same subject with a copper who used to train with me. Apparently you can break someones face/ribs/arms or legs with punches or throws to your hearts content and plead self-defence, but if you kick (or worse still) stamp/stomp on someone on the ground then most courts will throw the book at you.
The way I'd see it - no witnesses or CCTV - stomp on his throat and leave him to asphyxiate.

Ps. Drunken Master - funniest post I've read in ages.

Resident

855 posts

Friday 16th September 2005 at 07:11

Im with the copper story, kicking on the floor is a no no ... have a friend who done it got community service and suspended sentence that was in self defence...

Also what if you were to slap a rear naked on someone in self defence and put them out?????????

______________________________

budoman

Newbie

12 posts

Friday 16th September 2005 at 14:40

Good question. I personaly am a better striker. It feels ntural to me. I will even try to strike on the ground before using a joint lock. I am 6"0 245 lbs. so if i connect i can usually end the situation. I have only trained in jujitsu for about a year and a half. I do love it but look at it more like, if it has to go there.
I wonder if you you did a choke on someone till they went to sleep, what would the court say about that? Is it better because you cut of their oxygen? Is there a legal way to end a situation? I mean if someone's intentions are to harm you, why should you even have to think about the "proper way to stop them. shouldnt you just do your thing, whatever works to save your or your family or whomevers lives and thank god you did it afterwards?

Robsco

1319 posts

Friday 16th September 2005 at 14:52

It all comes down to 'reasonable force'.

Plus it's more about what you 'perceived' to be the danger, not simply what the danger actually was.

If you thought someone was going to stab you, then you can use the same force to defend yourself.

You are also entitled to a pre-emptive strike if you think things are gonna 'kick-off'.

The Admin Guy

andy

Resident

729 posts

Friday 16th September 2005 at 14:53

if you choke someone out, and are still out when the cops show up, just say they fainted

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

budoman

Newbie

12 posts

Friday 16th September 2005 at 15:57

ha,ha,ha,ha - good one. or what about, Officer you just missed it. It was so funny, That guy on the ground, his face just ran into my fist.

Bren

Addict

123 posts

Friday 16th September 2005 at 20:51

I'm sure I've heard that using a choke or strangle is considered "deadly force" because of the damage you could "accidently" do to the trachea or carotid arteries but the police use "sholder strangles" themselves to tie someone up.

budoman

Newbie

12 posts

Friday 16th September 2005 at 21:04

Then why even train if you really cant do any of it anyway. Mabe i should have never even started to train and just let every joe on the street slap me sideways and say thank you sir, can i have another.

Sweaty Gi

Moderator

120 posts

Friday 16th September 2005 at 21:08

It all depends on how long you put the choke on for.

I say choke/knock em out, then do a runner before the police arrive.

budoman

Newbie

12 posts

Friday 16th September 2005 at 22:13

that animation is really cool man. Where can i find stuff like that?

Sweaty Gi

Moderator

120 posts

Monday 19th September 2005 at 00:02

can't remember where I found him

spider

Regular

235 posts

Tuesday 20th September 2005 at 11:14

I am in the RAF, and whenever I'm on guard or patrol with my rifle, I have no more rights to defend myself than a civilian, and so regularly get trained in the use of minimum force.
I have the right to defend myself, using the absolute minimum force necessary to protect human life when no other option is available.
You need a cop to answer your question, but if you got out of your car, and walked over, then hit him... how is that self defence? If you were frightened for you life, why didn't you drive away in a screech of rubber and dust, straight to the nearest police station to report the crime and demand protection?:-|