Taekwando to Ju-Jitsu - Ultimate Jujitsu

Author	Comments
Robsco 1319 posts	Tuesday 29th March 2005 at 17:58 Well let's see if you're right Sl, this kinda shows how good TKD is against Muay Thai... [link=http://rob.intelcompute.com/Thai_Boxing_vs_Tae_Kwon_Do.mpg]Thai Boxing vs Tae Kwon Do.mpg[/link] ...and that's strikes against strikes. Pit TKD against any grappling art and you're a dead man. The Admin Guy
alski Regular 73 posts	Tuesday 29th March 2005 at 19:52 Muay thai 1 TKD 0! I noticed the tkd lad was a red belt,how does that rank in the tkd system? whatever the rank,talk about out classed,he didnt stand a chance! its was well worth downloading.nice one robsco.
Robsco 1319 posts	Tuesday 29th March 2005 at 20:34 Not sure about the belt, but in some competitions - no matter what style, some people don't wear the belt they actually are, some just go for white to not let their opponent know what grade they are. Just something to bear in mind. Thought you'd all like the video, certainly proves a point, although I'm sure everyone will come to the defence of the TKD guy - he did seem just a bit TOO out-classed. The Admin Guy
trevek2 Addict 119 posts	Tuesday 29th March 2005 at 21:40 Red belt is like brown belt. Just to be pedantic, guys like Master Sken and Toddy all trained in TKD (as well as MT) See how well I block all your
trevek2 Addict 119 posts	Tuesday 29th March 2005 at 21:46 Just watched the film. The guy is WTF style TKD. I think he's a black tag, one below Black Belt. WTF competition (ITF too for that matter) doesn't allow sweeps, let alone leg kicks, so that's probably why he is so totally outclassed. Note a common flaw of WTF-ers is to keep their hands even lower than Naseem Hamed. Funny, cos you can't punch to the head but you can kick. See how well I block all your
Robsco 1319 posts	Tuesday 29th March 2005 at 23:03 The video is all starting to make sense! Cheers for the info Trevek! The Admin Guy
andy Resident 729 posts	Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 09:55 ok, TKD competition doesnt allow sweeps or leg kicks. Some how I dont think they were fighting TKD rules, so if all you TKD guys train leg kicks, sweeps etc. then this guy should have used them. Its a poor excuse to say he didnt use them becuase its not allowed in competition, neck cranks, heel hooks, twisters etc are not allowed in bjj but i can still do them and would do in a comp that allowed them. "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
sl Resident 855 posts	Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 10:32 How come heel hooks arent allowed? If you use in a tournament you disqualified or lose points? Master Sken and Toddy did both train TKD. But thats irrelevant Muay Thai wins ;-) TKD loses..... ______________________________
sl Resident 855 posts	Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 10:43 I was right shin to face if im not mistaken! :-D:-\| ______________________________
andy Resident 729 posts	Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 17:26 you get disqualified, heel hooks are dangerous you fell no pain in ankle and then suddenly your knee pops. In an MMA bout in England a guy was in a heel hook, rotated the wrong way to try and escape, shattered his shin with 3 spiral fractures. "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
sl Resident 855 posts	Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 17:33 F*** me didnt know they were that dangerous. Nicep ic ... :-p ______________________________
andy Resident 729 posts	Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 17:35 sensible size now "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
sl Resident 855 posts	Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 17:36 Bet you Robsco tells you off..... Girly pics arent allowed hahaha:-D ______________________________
trevek2 Addict 119 posts	Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 19:50 Andy, it reflects the point made earlier that the major problem with TKD is the focus on TKD competition sparring within the majority of TKD clubs. I trained for years and never got taught how to do more than a couple of sweeps and these were only used in set sparring, not in free sparring. The way that guy spars shows the problems of this over emphasis. Considering he is fighting a guy who uses boxing techniques (although he doesn't throw any, I'd be interested to know what the rules were and where it was) it was madness to have his hands that low (no way I'd try to block a MT kick with my arms at low level). It's a major flaw with many WTF-ers. Point to note, WTF are the full-contact boys (and girls) who wear pads and compete in the Olympics. Chang Hon (ITF) mainly do semi-contact. Mark Weir was a TKD champ before going MMA (he says, trying to salvage some TKD credit!). See how well I block all your
Robsco 1319 posts	Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 22:15 hehe, lovin' the pic Andy, just worried about what people may think about you, are you some sort of transvestite? :-)) The Admin Guy
andy Resident 729 posts	Friday 1st April 2005 at 16:48 you make no sense "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
trevek2 Addict 119 posts	Friday 1st April 2005 at 17:31 Sorry Andy, it was a bit garbled. Late night writing, I think. No, I was referring to earlier comments about TKD in that while it does have all the elements of low kicks, elbows, knees and sweeps etc, it does (as several folk said) depend on where you train as to whether such things are developed. I studied for a few years in different places and while some did teach non-competition technique a lot of them didn't really do much more than competition sparring (and set sparring for gradings). The upshot was after ten years I always resorted to a step forward right leg double kick (mid to high section) and was pretty pathetic at close in hand work. Muay Thai has the additional advantage that the nature of the sparring allows the student to use more of techniques learned in the gym. In TKD competition you aren't even allowed to grab their leg if it is near your head! Let alone leg kicks and sweeps. The guy in the video is using WTF competition technique. He never goes close enough to use hands or knees and, as I said, he keeps his hands down in classic WTF style. I suspect he has never really trained against leg attacks either. That is my point. By sparring in a style over emphasized due to sort considerations he never gets to use the wider array of TKD techniques. For a potential TKD student it is important to realise that while you will learn a load of techniques you aint gonna get the chance to use 'em in mainstream TKD competition. So, while the training is good for many things it can leave you wide open if your instructor doesn't show you how to use them. This isn't a problem of the art itself lacking as much as the instructors giving it the wrong emphasis. When i started free sparring in a traditional jujitsu class I was cannon fodder for the experienced grapplers if I let them get close enough. My only real survival technique was to try to keep em at bay with long range leg work and evasion techniques learned in TKD (of course, the inevitable happened and I'd get grappled down) but this was before I started to learn more about ground technique etc. In a real situation (I hope) I'd use the knee and elbow techniques I'd learned in TKD before I have to go to ground. Do I make more sense now (even tho' I've repeated and confirmed what we've all already said)? See how well I block all your
andy Resident 729 posts	Saturday 2nd April 2005 at 08:58 the 'no sense' comment was directed at rob for his transvestite remark. i understand that you may some clubs may teach kness/elbows etc, but unless you drill them and spar with them you will have little chance in using then in the street effectively. like i've always said 'you fight how you train' "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
trevek2 Addict 119 posts	Tuesday 19th April 2005 at 14:30 Ha ha, OK, Andy, try this one! TKD strikes back! http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/Video_to_View_6_Others.html See how well I block all your
thump Regular 29 posts	Wednesday 20th April 2005 at 09:04 Has anybody been watching the ufc's lately,you will notice chuck lidell is winning all his fights and he is being put against the best.Now all his fights i have seen lately have never gone to the floor, or if they have it was for a very brief moment.This proves striking art is effective.The difference was in the early days bjj took the world by surprise with all it's fanastic moves.Now most fighters are aware of the take down and hence chuck avoids them.One of chucks wins was against a bjj guy called renato sobral.He was even part of the gracie camp with 25 impressive wins to his name.Bjj is great and all that it is hyped up to be but continue to do a striking art.Boxing is much better but if you don't have choice then take what comes.;-)

Author

Comments

1319 posts

Tuesday 29th March 2005 at 17:58

Well let's see if you're right Sl, this kinda shows how good TKD is against Muay Thai...

[link=http://rob.intelcompute.com/Thai_Boxing_vs_Tae_Kwon_Do.mpg]Thai Boxing vs Tae Kwon Do.mpg[/link]

...and that's strikes against strikes. Pit TKD against any grappling art and you're a dead man.

The Admin Guy

alski

Regular

73 posts

Tuesday 29th March 2005 at 19:52

Muay thai 1 TKD 0! I noticed the tkd lad was a red belt,how does that rank in the tkd system? whatever the rank,talk about out classed,he didnt stand a chance! its was well worth downloading.nice one robsco.

Robsco

1319 posts

Tuesday 29th March 2005 at 20:34

Not sure about the belt, but in some competitions - no matter what style, some people don't wear the belt they actually are, some just go for white to not let their opponent know what grade they are.

Just something to bear in mind.

Thought you'd all like the video, certainly proves a point, although I'm sure everyone will come to the defence of the TKD guy - he did seem just a bit TOO out-classed.

The Admin Guy

trevek2

Addict

119 posts

Tuesday 29th March 2005 at 21:40

Red belt is like brown belt. Just to be pedantic, guys like Master Sken and Toddy all trained in TKD (as well as MT)

See how well I block all your

trevek2

Addict

119 posts

Tuesday 29th March 2005 at 21:46

Just watched the film. The guy is WTF style TKD. I think he's a black tag, one below Black Belt. WTF competition (ITF too for that matter) doesn't allow sweeps, let alone leg kicks, so that's probably why he is so totally outclassed. Note a common flaw of WTF-ers is to keep their hands even lower than Naseem Hamed. Funny, cos you can't punch to the head but you can kick.

See how well I block all your

Robsco

1319 posts

Tuesday 29th March 2005 at 23:03

The video is all starting to make sense!

Cheers for the info Trevek!

The Admin Guy

andy

Resident

729 posts

Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 09:55

ok, TKD competition doesnt allow sweeps or leg kicks. Some how I dont think they were fighting TKD rules, so if all you TKD guys train leg kicks, sweeps etc. then this guy should have used them. Its a poor excuse to say he didnt use them becuase its not allowed in competition, neck cranks, heel hooks, twisters etc are not allowed in bjj but i can still do them and would do in a comp that allowed them.

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

Resident

855 posts

Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 10:32

How come heel hooks arent allowed? If you use in a tournament you disqualified or lose points?

Master Sken and Toddy did both train TKD. But thats irrelevant Muay Thai wins ;-) TKD loses.....

______________________________

Resident

855 posts

Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 10:43

I was right shin to face if im not mistaken! :-D:-|

______________________________

andy

Resident

729 posts

Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 17:26

you get disqualified, heel hooks are dangerous you fell no pain in ankle and then suddenly your knee pops.

In an MMA bout in England a guy was in a heel hook, rotated the wrong way to try and escape, shattered his shin with 3 spiral fractures.

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

Resident

855 posts

Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 17:33

F*** me didnt know they were that dangerous.

Nicep ic ... :-p

______________________________

andy

Resident

729 posts

Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 17:35

sensible size now

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

Resident

855 posts

Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 17:36

Bet you Robsco tells you off..... Girly pics arent allowed hahaha:-D

______________________________

trevek2

Addict

119 posts

Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 19:50

Andy, it reflects the point made earlier that the major problem with TKD is the focus on TKD competition sparring within the majority of TKD clubs. I trained for years and never got taught how to do more than a couple of sweeps and these were only used in set sparring, not in free sparring.

The way that guy spars shows the problems of this over emphasis. Considering he is fighting a guy who uses boxing techniques (although he doesn't throw any, I'd be interested to know what the rules were and where it was) it was madness to have his hands that low (no way I'd try to block a MT kick with my arms at low level). It's a major flaw with many WTF-ers.

Point to note, WTF are the full-contact boys (and girls) who wear pads and compete in the Olympics. Chang Hon (ITF) mainly do semi-contact.

Mark Weir was a TKD champ before going MMA (he says, trying to salvage some TKD credit!).

See how well I block all your

Robsco

1319 posts

Wednesday 30th March 2005 at 22:15

hehe, lovin' the pic Andy, just worried about what people may think about you, are you some sort of transvestite? :-))

The Admin Guy

andy

Resident

729 posts

Friday 1st April 2005 at 16:48

you make no sense

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

trevek2

Addict

119 posts

Friday 1st April 2005 at 17:31

Sorry Andy, it was a bit garbled. Late night writing, I think.

No, I was referring to earlier comments about TKD in that while it does have all the elements of low kicks, elbows, knees and sweeps etc, it does (as several folk said) depend on where you train as to whether such things are developed.

I studied for a few years in different places and while some did teach non-competition technique a lot of them didn't really do much more than competition sparring (and set sparring for gradings). The upshot was after ten years I always resorted to a step forward right leg double kick (mid to high section) and was pretty pathetic at close in hand work.

Muay Thai has the additional advantage that the nature of the sparring allows the student to use more of techniques learned in the gym. In TKD competition you aren't even allowed to grab their leg if it is near your head! Let alone leg kicks and sweeps.

The guy in the video is using WTF competition technique. He never goes close enough to use hands or knees and, as I said, he keeps his hands down in classic WTF style. I suspect he has never really trained against leg attacks either.

That is my point. By sparring in a style over emphasized due to sort considerations he never gets to use the wider array of TKD techniques. For a potential TKD student it is important to realise that while you will learn a load of techniques you aint gonna get the chance to use 'em in mainstream TKD competition. So, while the training is good for many things it can leave you wide open if your instructor doesn't show you how to use them. This isn't a problem of the art itself lacking as much as the instructors giving it the wrong emphasis.

When i started free sparring in a traditional jujitsu class I was cannon fodder for the experienced grapplers if I let them get close enough. My only real survival technique was to try to keep em at bay with long range leg work and evasion techniques learned in TKD (of course, the inevitable happened and I'd get grappled down) but this was before I started to learn more about ground technique etc.

In a real situation (I hope) I'd use the knee and elbow techniques I'd learned in TKD before I have to go to ground.

Do I make more sense now (even tho' I've repeated and confirmed what we've all already said)?

See how well I block all your

andy

Resident

729 posts

Saturday 2nd April 2005 at 08:58

the 'no sense' comment was directed at rob for his transvestite remark.

i understand that you may some clubs may teach kness/elbows etc, but unless you drill them and spar with them you will have little chance in using then in the street effectively.

like i've always said 'you fight how you train'

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

trevek2

Addict

119 posts

Tuesday 19th April 2005 at 14:30

Ha ha,

OK, Andy, try this one! TKD strikes back!

http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/Video_to_View_6_Others.html

See how well I block all your

thump

Regular

29 posts

Wednesday 20th April 2005 at 09:04

Has anybody been watching the ufc's lately,you will notice chuck lidell is winning all his fights and he is being put against the best.Now all his fights i have seen lately have never gone to the floor, or if they have it was for a very brief moment.This proves striking art is effective.The difference was in the early days bjj took the world by surprise with all it's fanastic moves.Now most fighters are aware of the take down and hence chuck avoids them.One of chucks wins was against a bjj guy called renato sobral.He was even part of the gracie camp with 25 impressive wins to his name.Bjj is great and all that it is hyped up to be but continue to do a striking art.Boxing is much better but if you don't have choice then take what comes.;-)