Taekwando to Ju-Jitsu - Ultimate Jujitsu

Author	Comments
thump Regular 29 posts	Wednesday 20th April 2005 at 09:15 By the way just incase it's not clear striking art alongside bjj.cheers
psj Newbie 4 posts	Wednesday 20th April 2005 at 15:29 i`v heard that tdk doesn`t work in real fight. If you don`t win your opponent with one strike or kick, it`s pretty certain that the fight will go to the ground. once your on the ground you`ll need grappling skills to work your way out. so more grappling and hand lock training and less fancy kata training. It wont work in real life!!! simpler the better.:-)
trevek2 Addict 119 posts	Thursday 21st April 2005 at 21:46 what exactly is a real fight? does that mean karate, boxing or various kung fu's won't work? I know several guys who have managed pretty well with TKD and karate in real fights. It isn't just a one-strike affair. http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/video/others/TkdVsThai.wmv try it this time! See how well I block all your
psj Newbie 4 posts	Friday 22nd April 2005 at 14:54 How meny times have you seen a street fight where guys are fighting with high kicks and almost no punching? I assume not very many times? No, most of the times it`s grappling sort of fighting and lot of punching. very rarely you will see any kicking. Now, i was only talking abaut tdk, not about boxing!! actually i think boxing would be very effective.:-O
trevek2 Addict 119 posts	Friday 22nd April 2005 at 17:02 Can I let you into a secret? The first eight or so patterns do not contain any high kicks. most of the kicks used in the tul are mid section and low snap kicks. There are also techniques like punching, knees and elbows. All this is before blue belt. In ITF-style sparring the blue belts and above use continuous sparring rather than point-stop and very often the emphasis is on hand techniques which are quicker. If you are closer then the opponent can't kick so well. In street fights I've seen low kicks and roundhouses to the leg, elbows etc. All stuff I've seen in TKD. Forgive me my mate, as I don't know you, but I wonder how much TKD you've seen and how much Chuck Norris/ Olympic sparring you've been watching to get such a hackneyed idea of TKD. That being said, yes, it is of little use if you have to go to ground. The skill is not letting them take you there. See how well I block all your
trevek2 Addict 119 posts	Friday 22nd April 2005 at 17:06 Me again, the thing is that there are two main styles of TKD. The WTF (Olympic) doesn't allow head punches in competition. ITF does (as well as knife hands etc). Gotta go, the tai chi expert is gonna soft art me to death if I don't go to the pub with him. See how well I block all your
psj Newbie 4 posts	Friday 22nd April 2005 at 21:29 I assume you have a lot more experience about tdk then i do. thruthfully my opinions are bound about my experience with tdk guys and like you said what i`v seen in the Olympics,and what i have spar with them ( which is not a lot 2-3 guys). I have experienced that sooner you get them on the ground they are quite helpless. But, i`v practised aikido about 1,5 years before i changed to ju-jitsu (now green belt). And i must say that it had nothing to do with selfdefence, at least i feld so. Just guys dancing around!!! Of course i dont want to insult you whit my opinions. Every excercise is good for you!! Maybe i should give tdk a go!!!:-p ps: do you really think that those olympic tdk guys would survive somethink like nhb match? really??
psj Newbie 4 posts	Friday 22nd April 2005 at 21:32 cheers to the pub!!! i am on my way also!!!!!!!
trevek2 Addict 119 posts	Saturday 23rd April 2005 at 07:10 Aikido? Nice art. I knew some pretty devasting Aikidoka. Always fancied Hapkido (kind of TKD meets Aikido) myself but never got around to it. In answer to your Q, no, I don't think many of these guys would last in MMA, although there was an MMA tourney here in Poland and an ITF guy won the first one. From what I saw of it they seemed to try to match grapplers with strikers throughout. Mind you, I think he lost the second one eventually. The trouble is, like we've discussed on this thread, TKD suffers from the sport emphasis. Too many people train in pure sport technique and it is only a few instructors who really try to teach it as a combat form. The problem with the sport is it limits the most useful techniques. examples, no grabbing of the leg, no sweeps or low kicks, no head punches (in WTF). The upshot is that many guys don't train against these techniques. It also means many instructors aren't aware of other techniques, such as grappling cos they've never encountered them. I was lucky enough to train with guys who taught more elements of boxing or wrestling. If you watch the vids on this thread, there is a Muay Thai guy who destroys a TKD guy using low kicks and close in work. In the other vid a TKD guy kicks a MT guy about, but at one point ends up on the floor. Had that been MMA against a grappler then Mr TKD would have been sat upon! If you can find a realistic instructor then TKD can offer a lot of ideas for striking and reaction training, mobility etc but, as we've said, one good take down and your in big trouble. How was the pub? Sadly the offer came to me when I had the car so I ended up on cokes and coffee all night. A caffeine buzz is worse than getting drunk! See how well I block all your
trevek2 Addict 119 posts	Sunday 24th April 2005 at 09:57 Couple of interesting TKD articles http://www.fighting-spirit.co.uk/articles.htm See how well I block all your
trevek2 Addict 119 posts	Tuesday 3rd May 2005 at 14:21 Incidentally, I recall reading an article in Black Belt magazine many years ago, when UFC hit the scene first time. They asked a load of high-ranking MA practitioners how they'd deal with a Gracie attack. Hee Il Cho, of TKD gave some ideas (I have my doubts about them, myself). Did anyone ever come across such articles? See how well I block all your

Author

Comments

thump

Regular

29 posts

Wednesday 20th April 2005 at 09:15

By the way just incase it's not clear striking art alongside bjj.cheers

psj

Newbie

4 posts

Wednesday 20th April 2005 at 15:29

i`v heard that tdk doesn`t work in real fight. If you don`t win your opponent with one strike or kick, it`s pretty certain that the fight will go to the ground. once your on the ground you`ll need grappling skills to work your way out. so more grappling and hand lock training and less fancy kata training. It wont work in real life!!! simpler the better.:-)

trevek2

Addict

119 posts

Thursday 21st April 2005 at 21:46

what exactly is a real fight? does that mean karate, boxing or various kung fu's won't work? I know several guys who have managed pretty well with TKD and karate in real fights. It isn't just a one-strike affair.

http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/video/others/TkdVsThai.wmv

try it this time!

See how well I block all your

psj

Newbie

4 posts

Friday 22nd April 2005 at 14:54

How meny times have you seen a street fight where guys are fighting with high kicks and almost no punching? I assume not very many times? No, most of the times it`s grappling sort of fighting and lot of punching. very rarely you will see any kicking. Now, i was only talking abaut tdk, not about boxing!! actually i think boxing would be very effective.:-O

trevek2

Addict

119 posts

Friday 22nd April 2005 at 17:02

Can I let you into a secret? The first eight or so patterns do not contain any high kicks. most of the kicks used in the tul are mid section and low snap kicks. There are also techniques like punching, knees and elbows. All this is before blue belt. In ITF-style sparring the blue belts and above use continuous sparring rather than point-stop and very often the emphasis is on hand techniques which are quicker. If you are closer then the opponent can't kick so well. In street fights I've seen low kicks and roundhouses to the leg, elbows etc. All stuff I've seen in TKD.
Forgive me my mate, as I don't know you, but I wonder how much TKD you've seen and how much Chuck Norris/ Olympic sparring you've been watching to get such a hackneyed idea of TKD.
That being said, yes, it is of little use if you have to go to ground. The skill is not letting them take you there.

See how well I block all your

trevek2

Addict

119 posts

Friday 22nd April 2005 at 17:06

Me again, the thing is that there are two main styles of TKD. The WTF (Olympic) doesn't allow head punches in competition. ITF does (as well as knife hands etc). Gotta go, the tai chi expert is gonna soft art me to death if I don't go to the pub with him.

See how well I block all your

psj

Newbie

4 posts

Friday 22nd April 2005 at 21:29

I assume you have a lot more experience about tdk then i do. thruthfully my opinions are bound about my experience with tdk guys and like you said what i`v seen in the Olympics,and what i have spar with them ( which is not a lot 2-3 guys). I have experienced that sooner you get them on the ground they are quite helpless. But, i`v practised aikido about 1,5 years before i changed to ju-jitsu (now green belt). And i must say that it had nothing to do with selfdefence, at least i feld so. Just guys dancing around!!! Of course i dont want to insult you whit my opinions. Every excercise is good for you!! Maybe i should give tdk a go!!!:-p

ps: do you really think that those olympic tdk guys would survive somethink like nhb match? really??

psj

Newbie

4 posts

Friday 22nd April 2005 at 21:32

cheers to the pub!!! i am on my way also!!!!!!!

trevek2

Addict

119 posts

Saturday 23rd April 2005 at 07:10

Aikido? Nice art. I knew some pretty devasting Aikidoka. Always fancied Hapkido (kind of TKD meets Aikido) myself but never got around to it.

In answer to your Q, no, I don't think many of these guys would last in MMA, although there was an MMA tourney here in Poland and an ITF guy won the first one. From what I saw of it they seemed to try to match grapplers with strikers throughout. Mind you, I think he lost the second one eventually.

The trouble is, like we've discussed on this thread, TKD suffers from the sport emphasis. Too many people train in pure sport technique and it is only a few instructors who really try to teach it as a combat form. The problem with the sport is it limits the most useful techniques. examples, no grabbing of the leg, no sweeps or low kicks, no head punches (in WTF). The upshot is that many guys don't train against these techniques. It also means many instructors aren't aware of other techniques, such as grappling cos they've never encountered them. I was lucky enough to train with guys who taught more elements of boxing or wrestling.

If you watch the vids on this thread, there is a Muay Thai guy who destroys a TKD guy using low kicks and close in work. In the other vid a TKD guy kicks a MT guy about, but at one point ends up on the floor. Had that been MMA against a grappler then Mr TKD would have been sat upon!

If you can find a realistic instructor then TKD can offer a lot of ideas for striking and reaction training, mobility etc but, as we've said, one good take down and your in big trouble.

How was the pub? Sadly the offer came to me when I had the car so I ended up on cokes and coffee all night. A caffeine buzz is worse than getting drunk!

See how well I block all your

trevek2

Addict

119 posts

Sunday 24th April 2005 at 09:57

Couple of interesting TKD articles http://www.fighting-spirit.co.uk/articles.htm

See how well I block all your

trevek2

Addict

119 posts

Tuesday 3rd May 2005 at 14:21

Incidentally, I recall reading an article in Black Belt magazine many years ago, when UFC hit the scene first time. They asked a load of high-ranking MA practitioners how they'd deal with a Gracie attack. Hee Il Cho, of TKD gave some ideas (I have my doubts about them, myself). Did anyone ever come across such articles?

See how well I block all your