Ju jutsu and brasilian ju jutsu

Author	Comments
medtech88 Spectator 1 posts	Saturday 19th July 2008 at 17:15 Hi. Is there a difference between ju jutsu and brasilian ju jutsu? Thanx for your answer.
outkast Spectator 39 posts	Saturday 19th July 2008 at 17:46 BJJ is mainly ground based system the darkside is more fun
andy Resident 729 posts	Monday 21st July 2008 at 18:28 one works, one doesn't "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
Alansmurf Spectator 21 posts	Saturday 26th July 2008 at 11:04 Andy ...strange reply.. Jujutsu is an art of fighting from the Japanese part of the worls BJJ is a variant of this with emphasis on groundwork and competition ...similar to judo groundwork really ...Judo is the sport of jujutsu ...so you see they are all really interlinked... The simple answer is they are all fun and will compliment each other if you chose to train in one, two or all three variants .. Good luck Smurf Smurf
Robsco 1319 posts	Sunday 27th July 2008 at 00:04 Hi Alan, I think the point Andy is trying to make is that training in Traditional Ju-Jitsu isn't as effective as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu when it comes to Self Defense. This obviously comes down to the club/academy you train at, so let me make that point now, it depends where you train . Of course all martial arts training is fun (if it isn't then find another club, quite simply!) I've found that training in traditional Ju-Jitsu is great fun, and also taught me a LOT about how the body works, how far limbs will go before causing severe pain, and/or breaking. The problem I see, is many traditional clubs won't or can't train with real-world force. That isn't to say they're not effective, far from it, but it's this feel of actually fighting that you always see in BJJ, yet in traditional clubs it always seems to be about doing kata's or something similiar, just showing you know the move, but not being put under pressure to actually apply it to a resisting opponent. All of this comes under a huge assumption of how your particular club trains. All BJJ clubs (that I've trained with anyway) teach a move in a controlled environment as with traditional Ju-Jitsu clubs, but then allow students to truly 'grapple' and hopefully try out those techniques against real-world resisting opponents. Many people seem to have this BIG issue with BJJ still being a sport, and yes, it is, but so is traditional Ju-Jitsu. BJJ has usually led students to things like Cage Warriors or the UFC, etc. whether it's watching or taking part themselves. Traditional Ju-Jitsu likes to talk about how effective it is, but doesn't seem to ever leave the dojo, apart from all these tails of how good someone maybe at defending a real-life knife-attack. It's an impossible position, between 'both sides' of the argument. Personally I'm happy with a few years in Traditional Ju-Jitsu (brown belt), but then with (what I regard) more real-world (fighting aggressive opponents) of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I think I've waffled enough, time for bed. :o) The Admin Guy
Robsco 1319 posts	Sunday 27th July 2008 at 00:19 Also Alan, did you send some photo's to be included on the site? Someone did recently but I've not had chance to put them up. Apologies to whoever it is, I'll hopefully sort them tomorrow. The Admin Guy
andy Resident 729 posts	Wednesday 30th July 2008 at 18:44 I have a 2nd degree black belt in Trad Ju Jitsu and taught it. BJJ was the cure. "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
andy Resident 729 posts	Wednesday 30th July 2008 at 18:47 it is a mis conception that BJJ is solely a ground fighting art. If you train at a good club you will learn EFFECTIVE self defence moves but you wont learn 1000 ways to defend against a punch, you will learn a defence to each common scenario. you can then pressure test these. BJJ works, Trad doesnt. just my opinion after 20 years martial arts training covering judo, ju jitsu, thai boxing, western boxing, eskrima, weapons, BJJ, "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
outkast Spectator 39 posts	Wednesday 30th July 2008 at 21:36 did not carlos newton come from trad j-j? the darkside is more fun
Robsco 1319 posts	Wednesday 30th July 2008 at 22:42 "did not carlos newton come from trad j-j?" I don't think the point is where people come 'from', but what they train in now. Traditional Ju-Jitsu a great sport and self defence system for beginners, I don't think anyone is arguing against that. The Admin Guy
andy Resident 729 posts	Thursday 31st July 2008 at 13:16 I am "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
Ashiro Spectator 7 posts	Sunday 3rd August 2008 at 19:59 Andy - I think you must have trained at a poor club then. I mean no offence by that - but by your own definition. Our's is what you'd likely label "Traditional" but we've a heavy emphasis on regional, national and international kumite competition. The Gracie Bara dojo in Birmingham has sent some fighters to our organisation's kumite and we've held our own. There's certainly no mis-match in skill. In the classes we very much concentrate on 3 main aspects: * Self defence * Traditional * Kumite We're lucky to have regular seminars on knife defence, weapons (kobudo) including practical knowledge from serving police officers inside the organisation. As well as getting trained by those close to the kumite-side of things - the Dan-grade competitors, refs, etc. If we were just being taught the koryu (traditional) then I'd agree with you - it lacks the dimensions of competition, realism, etc. However, our 'traditional' club has many facets and I think they all complement each other. The traditional has taught me more technically (body dynamics, weapons, etc) than the others. However, that's useless without the fantastic kumite practice we get. Tai Jutsu Kai West Midlands, UK
andy Resident 729 posts	Monday 4th August 2008 at 16:55 i didnt train at a 'poor' club as you put it. We did plenty of sparring, kumite, competition etc. As for weapons yup been there done that. I have trained with many of the top 'traditional' instructors in many arts. I have been asked by the marines to teach them. The US Army recently changed there whole combatives programme which is now predominatly BJJ. They did this because of an experiment they did in the early nineties (before UFC) they took 100 guys and taught 50 boxing and the other 50 got extra S&C training after 6 months they fought, the guys who did extra S&C won. they repeated and brought in Pro Boxing Coaches. Same result. Boxers lost. They then did grappling(BJJ) for 50 and S&C for 50, grapplers won. Nuff said. "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
outkast Spectator 39 posts	Monday 4th August 2008 at 22:30 I used to train with T.J.K and yes they train pretty well rounded.I have also done BJJ and with bjj they do have an effective style my only thing was they mainly trained in competition and i rarely saw any self defence type moves.Im not saying this is the same at every club but most of them in our area seem to train this way. the darkside is more fun
andy Resident 729 posts	Tuesday 5th August 2008 at 13:06 some bjj clubs just concentrate on competition, good ones will start you off with self defence aswell. "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
Alansmurf Spectator 21 posts	Friday 8th August 2008 at 11:51 I disagree with Andy as to the effectiveness of either BJJ or JJJ ..the important point is the practitioner ... you can practice either art for years and still freeze in a street situation for several reasons ...out of your comfort zone ...panic.. slipping on a banana skin .. my question is why all this animosity between the different styles... training will improve a persons fighting skills ...your choice of training is up to you ... but quit the negativity ...if you have nothing good to say save your breath for training .... A rear naked chake will put someone asleep whether standing or on the ground ... Train well Smurf Smurf
Alansmurf Spectator 21 posts	Friday 8th August 2008 at 11:52 Choke !!! LOL!!! Smurf
andy Resident 729 posts	Friday 8th August 2008 at 15:26 'training will improve a persons fighting skills ' not if you teach them rubbish that doesn't work! "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
spider Regular 235 posts	Friday 8th August 2008 at 16:42 No it won't! Who would be stupid enough to stand still and let you choke them? (see Andy's pic)
Alansmurf Spectator 21 posts	Friday 8th August 2008 at 21:49 you have obviously never heard of ubbalancing your opponent.. Andys pic \|? Smurf

Author

Comments

medtech88

Spectator

1 posts

Saturday 19th July 2008 at 17:15

Hi. Is there a difference between ju jutsu and brasilian ju jutsu? Thanx for your answer.

outkast

Spectator

39 posts

Saturday 19th July 2008 at 17:46

BJJ is mainly ground based system

the darkside is more fun

andy

Resident

729 posts

Monday 21st July 2008 at 18:28

one works, one doesn't

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

Alansmurf

Spectator

21 posts

Saturday 26th July 2008 at 11:04

Andy ...strange reply..

Jujutsu is an art of fighting from the Japanese part of the worls

BJJ is a variant of this with emphasis on groundwork and competition ...similar to judo groundwork really ...Judo is the sport of jujutsu ...so you see they are all really interlinked...

The simple answer is they are all fun and will compliment each other if you chose to train in one, two or all three variants ..

Good luck

Smurf

Smurf

Robsco

1319 posts

Sunday 27th July 2008 at 00:04

Hi Alan,

I think the point Andy is trying to make is that training in Traditional Ju-Jitsu isn't as effective as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu when it comes to Self Defense.

This obviously comes down to the club/academy you train at, so let me make that point now, it depends where you train .

Of course all martial arts training is fun (if it isn't then find another club, quite simply!)

I've found that training in traditional Ju-Jitsu is great fun, and also taught me a LOT about how the body works, how far limbs will go before causing severe pain, and/or breaking.

The problem I see, is many traditional clubs won't or can't train with real-world force.

That isn't to say they're not effective, far from it, but it's this feel of actually fighting that you always see in BJJ, yet in traditional clubs it always seems to be about doing kata's or something similiar, just showing you know the move, but not being put under pressure to actually apply it to a resisting opponent.

All of this comes under a huge assumption of how your particular club trains.

All BJJ clubs (that I've trained with anyway) teach a move in a controlled environment as with traditional Ju-Jitsu clubs, but then allow students to truly 'grapple' and hopefully try out those techniques against real-world resisting opponents.

Many people seem to have this BIG issue with BJJ still being a sport, and yes, it is, but so is traditional Ju-Jitsu.

BJJ has usually led students to things like Cage Warriors or the UFC, etc. whether it's watching or taking part themselves.

Traditional Ju-Jitsu likes to talk about how effective it is, but doesn't seem to ever leave the dojo, apart from all these tails of how good someone maybe at defending a real-life knife-attack.

It's an impossible position, between 'both sides' of the argument.

Personally I'm happy with a few years in Traditional Ju-Jitsu (brown belt), but then with (what I regard) more real-world (fighting aggressive opponents) of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

I think I've waffled enough, time for bed. :o)

The Admin Guy

Robsco

1319 posts

Sunday 27th July 2008 at 00:19

Also Alan,

did you send some photo's to be included on the site? Someone did recently but I've not had chance to put them up.

Apologies to whoever it is, I'll hopefully sort them tomorrow.

The Admin Guy

andy

Resident

729 posts

Wednesday 30th July 2008 at 18:44

I have a 2nd degree black belt in Trad Ju Jitsu and taught it.

BJJ was the cure.

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

andy

Resident

729 posts

Wednesday 30th July 2008 at 18:47

it is a mis conception that BJJ is solely a ground fighting art.

If you train at a good club you will learn EFFECTIVE self defence moves but you wont learn 1000 ways to defend against a punch, you will learn a defence to each common scenario. you can then pressure test these.

BJJ works, Trad doesnt. just my opinion after 20 years martial arts training covering judo, ju jitsu, thai boxing, western boxing, eskrima, weapons, BJJ,

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

outkast

Spectator

39 posts

Wednesday 30th July 2008 at 21:36

did not carlos newton come from trad j-j?

the darkside is more fun

Robsco

1319 posts

Wednesday 30th July 2008 at 22:42

"did not carlos newton come from trad j-j?"

I don't think the point is where people come 'from', but what they train in now.

Traditional Ju-Jitsu a great sport and self defence system for beginners, I don't think anyone is arguing against that.

The Admin Guy

andy

Resident

729 posts

Thursday 31st July 2008 at 13:16

I am

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

Ashiro

Spectator

7 posts

Sunday 3rd August 2008 at 19:59

Andy - I think you must have trained at a poor club then. I mean no offence by that - but by your own definition.

Our's is what you'd likely label "Traditional" but we've a heavy emphasis on regional, national and international kumite competition. The Gracie Bara dojo in Birmingham has sent some fighters to our organisation's kumite and we've held our own. There's certainly no mis-match in skill.

In the classes we very much concentrate on 3 main aspects:
* Self defence
* Traditional
* Kumite

We're lucky to have regular seminars on knife defence, weapons (kobudo) including practical knowledge from serving police officers inside the organisation.

As well as getting trained by those close to the kumite-side of things - the Dan-grade competitors, refs, etc.

If we were just being taught the koryu (traditional) then I'd agree with you - it lacks the dimensions of competition, realism, etc. However, our 'traditional' club has many facets and I think they all complement each other.

The traditional has taught me more technically (body dynamics, weapons, etc) than the others. However, that's useless without the fantastic kumite practice we get.

Tai Jutsu Kai
West Midlands, UK

andy

Resident

729 posts

Monday 4th August 2008 at 16:55

i didnt train at a 'poor' club as you put it. We did plenty of sparring, kumite, competition etc. As for weapons yup been there done that. I have trained with many of the top 'traditional' instructors in many arts. I have been asked by the marines to teach them. The US Army recently changed there whole combatives programme which is now predominatly BJJ.

They did this because of an experiment they did in the early nineties (before UFC) they took 100 guys and taught 50 boxing and the other 50 got extra S&C training after 6 months they fought, the guys who did extra S&C won. they repeated and brought in Pro Boxing Coaches. Same result. Boxers lost. They then did grappling(BJJ) for 50 and S&C for 50, grapplers won. Nuff said.

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

outkast

Spectator

39 posts

Monday 4th August 2008 at 22:30

I used to train with T.J.K and yes they train pretty well rounded.I have also done BJJ and with bjj they do have an effective style my only thing was they mainly trained in competition and i rarely saw any self defence type moves.Im not saying this is the same at every club but most of them in our area seem to train this way.

the darkside is more fun

andy

Resident

729 posts

Tuesday 5th August 2008 at 13:06

some bjj clubs just concentrate on competition, good ones will start you off with self defence aswell.

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

Alansmurf

Spectator

21 posts

Friday 8th August 2008 at 11:51

I disagree with Andy as to the effectiveness of either BJJ or JJJ ..the important point is the practitioner ...

you can practice either art for years and still freeze in a street situation for several reasons ...out of your comfort zone ...panic.. slipping on a banana skin ..

my question is why all this animosity between the different styles...

training will improve a persons fighting skills ...your choice of training is up to you ...

but quit the negativity ...if you have nothing good to say save your breath for training ....

A rear naked chake will put someone asleep whether standing or on the ground ...

Train well

Smurf

Smurf

Alansmurf

Spectator

21 posts

Friday 8th August 2008 at 11:52

Choke !!! LOL!!!

Smurf

andy

Resident

729 posts

Friday 8th August 2008 at 15:26

'training will improve a persons fighting skills '

not if you teach them rubbish that doesn't work!